"Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:56 pm

A few days ago I speculated that the racist alt-right could develop a way to get around their current difficulties with domains and hosting by creating their own versions of these services. I wouldn't be surprised to see them put up their own shithead-friendly hosting service, but going beyond that won't be as easy as setting up a Hatreon and a WeSearchr. This piece is good because it looks beyond the immediate question of how sites like the 'Daily Stormer' might manage to stay online to the larger question of freedom of expression on the internet.

'Why the alt-right can’t build an alt-internet: Building an internet for Nazis is hard'
After the August 12th hate rally in Charlottesville, online platforms that have long tolerated or ignored white supremacists are very publicly kicking them off. The crackdown spans a broad range of sites and apps, some of which are household names, like Uber, Facebook, and Spotify. But some of the most notable companies to purge their ranks are those we don’t often consider: the web hosts, domain registrars, and other services that you need to put a website on the internet. Over the past week, GoDaddy, Cloudflare, and Google — to name a few — have been playing hot potato with the major neo-Nazi news site Daily Stormer, taking it offline several times as it’s moved around the internet.

...

A site could use an alternative domain name system like Namecoin, for instance. It could advertise a numerical IP address rather than a link. The Daily Stormer set up shop on the free and decentralized Tor network, operating on the so-called dark web. But at that point, you’re not just independent, you’re effectively walled off from the normal internet. There are plenty of technological ways to run a shadow net, says Nathan Freitas, a fellow at Harvard’s Berkman Klein Center and leader of the open-source Guardian Project. “The question is, how willing is the audience to get to it? And is the point to allow their community to get to it, or the whole internet?”

Far-right sites and services want to be real alternatives to their mainstream counterparts, not just enclaves for true believers. After the Daily Stormer went down, founder Andrew Anglin gloated over the “massive amount of publicity” it had gotten. But that popularity is worth much more if it translates to people seeking out the Daily Stormer — and that can’t happen if they can’t find it. While supporters of the parallel economy predict that restrictive policies will drive people into the arms of “free speech”-friendly services, convenience is a powerful force.

Since Squarespace and other hosting services have started banning white supremacist sites, it’s also possible that we’ll see parallel companies running their own alternatives. And starting a web hosting service could certainly insulate sites from the kind of public pressure that’s taken the Daily Stormer offline.

But if the goal is immunity from all regulation, it’s very difficult to truly operate outside the law. The offshore data center HavenCo, for example, fell apart after technical problems and disputes with its hosts on the micronation of Sealand. And American copyright cops routinely police platforms located across the world, thanks to agreements with local governments.

...

“At this point, it is now really difficult to be off on your own online,” says Molly Sauter, a Berkman Klein Center affiliate and author of The Coming Swarm: DDOS Actions, Hacktivism, and Civil Disobedience on the Internet. That’s good news for the people pressuring web companies to crack down on hate content. But for anyone who worries about internet monopolies and walled gardens, it could be a canary in a coal mine. “It's hard for quote-unquote true social deviants, people who are really way out on the fringe, to maintain a solid presence. But it's also really easy for a handful of large corporate hosting companies to sort of dictate what is happening.”

The EFF also expressed its own concerns about the Daily Stormer ban last week. In a piece titled “Fighting neo-Nazis and the future of free expression,” members warned that opening the door to regulating speech with the domain name system could create a new tool for oppressive regimes to take websites offline. It called for registrars to take a hard line against suspending site domains, and for other services to follow the Manila Principles, a framework of safeguards and transparency rules for web platforms.

Adopting these measures would make it easier for all groups, not just the alt-right, to secure a place within existing web infrastructure. It wouldn’t, however, make it easier to step outside that infrastructure — which may be why Daily Stormer founder Andrew Anglin recently called for the US government to regulate ICANN, saying that frankly, he did not have the option to create his own internet. “It's very hard to roll your own stuff online,” says Sauter.

In an ideal world, Sauter would like to see a mechanism that would bring more real democracy — not just anarchy or corporate dominance — to the online world. For now, there’s really only one internet. In order to operate there, you’ve got to play by its rules. But after last week, those rules aren’t as clear as they once seemed.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:14 am

A story about women of the alt-right (yeah, there are some), mainly centering around some statements made by Lana Lokteff:

"The Women Behind The 'Alt-Right'"
Many of these women came into the alt-right initially as anti-feminists.

"They were people who felt that the feminist progressive agenda was not serving them — in some cases they felt like it was actively disregarding them because they wanted more traditional things: home, family, etc.," [journalist Seyward Darby] says. "And they came into the movement through that channel and then ultimately adopted more pro-white and white nationalist views."

One of those women was Lana Lokteff, a Russian-American from Oregon who co-runs Red Ice, an alt-right media company, with her Swedish husband, Henrik Palmgren.

The couple decided to make this their cause around 2012, Darby says, when they say they saw a lot of "anti-white sentiment." Around the time of several high-profile police shootings of young, black men, Lokteff "felt that Black Lives Matter and these other reactive forces were being unfair to white people and that then sort of spun into a conspiracy about how the establishment, so to speak, is out to oppress, minimize and silence white people."

Lokteff, who promotes alt-right ideologies on the couple's YouTube channel, has been persistently trolled by the men of the movement. Darby wanted to understand what attracts women to a movement that is often hostile to them.

In her piece, she quotes Andrew Anglin, who runs the (now blacklisted) neo-Nazi website the Daily Stormer as saying the white woman's womb "belongs to the males of society." And alt-right pioneer Richard Spencer, who acknowledges that women make up a small percentage of the movement, believes women are not suited for some roles in government, reports Mother Jones: "Women should never be allowed to make foreign policy," he tweeted during the first presidential debate. "It's not that they're 'weak.' To the contrary, their vindictiveness knows no bounds."

According to Lokteff and other alt-right women allies she spoke to, Darby says, "It's not that men who support the alt-right don't like women, it's that they see women as fundamentally different than men," with equally important roles, which are "to perpetuate white bloodlines, to nurture family units, to inculcate those families with pro-white beliefs."

But the growing contradiction, as Darby points out, "is that people like Lana Lockteff and other women that I spoke to are outspoken."

She adds, "They sort of see themselves as straddling a line between the male and female norms, because they think that at this point in their movement, the more people they can bring in, the more people they can convince that they are on the right side of history, the better, and that includes appealing to more women."

To recruit women to the movement, Darby says, the key is to stoke fear.

Asked how she would pitch the alt-right to conservative white women who voted for Trump, but are also wary of being labeled a white supremacist, Lokteff told her, "we have a joke in the alt-right: How do you red-pill someone? ("Red-pill" is their word for converting someone to the cause.) And the punch line was: Have them live in a diverse neighborhood for a while," Darby says. "She also said that when she is talking to women she reminds them that white women are under threat from black men, brown men, emigrants, and really uses this concept of a rape scourge to bring them in."

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:55 am

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:30 am

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:33 pm


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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:52 pm

Galaxian will love this:

'How I Became Fake News'
Last Sunday evening, I received a worried call from my sister asking if I had spoken with my mother and father. I had spent the day doing interviews about the vehicle attack I witnessed the day before while protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville and had not been in front of a computer all day. She told me that my parents’ home address had been posted on a neo-Nazi conspiracy theorist message board.

“They are suggesting that you arranged the attack, Brennan,” she said. “There are death threats against you.”

On Saturday morning, I witnessed James Fields smash his car into a crowd of demonstrators, killing Heather Heyer and wounding 19 others. Although I immediately shared the footage with police on the scene, it took me a half-hour to decide to post it publicly. I was concerned about how the footage might be used by the "alt-right" and felt uncomfortable knowing that I had probably filmed someone’s death. I did not want the attention posting the video was likely to bring. I consulted with friends and family, some of whom were also at the counterprotest and some of whom were watching the coverage from outside Charlottesville. They all urged me to share the video, and when I heard from friends that some media outlets were suggesting that it might have been an accident or that the driver might have been attempting to escape an angry mob, I knew I had to post it. The video I took—and the scene I witnessed with my own two eyes—clearly showed the attack was intentional. Fields drove down two empty blocks and plowed straight into the crowd before fleeing in reverse.

...

Hours after an interview I did with Alex Witt of MSNBC, neo-Nazi commentators started posting about me on 4chan, Reddit and YouTube. These crack researchers bragged that they had discovered I worked for the State Department (it’s in my Twitter bio), that I have a connection to George Soros (he very publicly donated to the campaign of my former boss, Tom Perriello), and that I spent time in Africa working in conflict areas (information available in major news outlets).

Desperate to lay blame on anyone besides the alt-right, they seized on these facts to suggest a counter-narrative to the attack, claiming there was no way that someone with my background just happened to be right there to take the video. Even ignoring the fact that someone with my background—raised in Virginia, UVA graduate, lives in Charlottesville, worked to resolve ethnic conflicts overseas, politically progressive—is exactly the kind of person you’d expect to find at a protest against Nazis, their theories were absurd and illogical. They wrote that I was a CIA operative, funded by (choose your own adventure) George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, the IMF/World Bank, and/or a global Jewish mafia to orchestrate the Charlottesville attack in order to turn the general public against the alt-right. I had staged the attack and then worked with MSNBC and other outlets controlled by the left to spread propaganda. They claimed my ultimate goal was to start a race war that would undermine and then overthrow Donald Trump on behalf of the “Deep State.” (I’m generalizing here as the theories are widely variant and logically inconsistent, and I’m only aware of the small percentage I could be bothered to read.)

As these theories spread, I started receiving hate mail. Some people sent me fairly tame comments on social media like, “God has a special place for you Gilmore,” “you are a lying communist Nazi” and “fuck you cuck.” Others threatened to kill me. One commenter posted that he’d like to torture me to see “the extent of my CIA training.” I was followed and accosted on the street in Charlottesville, and there have been many attempts to hack into my online accounts. One site posted all of my known addresses and family members, including the house I grew up in, where my parents still live.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:11 am

EDIT: Wrong thread.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:27 am

The 'paid protestor' talking point that got mention at the end of that article has been circulating in the right wing bubble for at least a couple of years, and is extremely popular there. I've yet to see reliable evidence that any of those claims are factual. When they're debunked, the right wing media and blogs generally ignore it and cruise right on to the next false claim. So it goes.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:08 pm

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:17 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:The 'paid protestor' talking point that got mention at the end of that article has been circulating in the right wing bubble for at least a couple of years, and is extremely popular there. I've yet to see reliable evidence that any of those claims are factual. When they're debunked, the right wing media and blogs generally ignore it and cruise right on to the next false claim. So it goes.

They're not debunked. Both the right wing and the left wing have "paid protesters." Activist groups get money from donors in order to accomplish desired tasks. This is not controversial, nor it is a scoop. It is as it has always been. The Republican machine wants to disrupt an event - just donate some dough to a group they can plausibly disavow and distance themselves from and then watch the sparks fly. It's a time-honored tradition.

Of course these counter protests are contrived and orchestrated. Just look at the remarkable consistency of the signage. Someone is producing those signs in bulk and distributing them.

In my state, we have groups called Florida Antifa, South Florida Antifa, and other such antifa based groups. They are groups of people who organize and they get funds from donors for their activities. The donors are often private individuals who sympathize, but to get that group to travel (most of the members don't have a lot of money) someone infuses some funds to pay their travel expenses and food and such, and maybe some extra as an incentive to participate. It's not controversial, and it's not an illegal practice.

George Soros, for example, funded the Ferguson protests - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-to-spur/

George Soros and David Brock -- https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear- ... e7f21651a4
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:01 pm

Forty Two wrote:
L'Emmerdeur wrote:The 'paid protestor' talking point that got mention at the end of that article has been circulating in the right wing bubble for at least a couple of years, and is extremely popular there. I've yet to see reliable evidence that any of those claims are factual. When they're debunked, the right wing media and blogs generally ignore it and cruise right on to the next false claim. So it goes.

They're not debunked. Both the right wing and the left wing have "paid protesters." Activist groups get money from donors in order to accomplish desired tasks. This is not controversial,
Sounds controversial to me. I've never heard of anyone actually being paid to protest. How do I get onto this income stream? :ab:
In my state, we have groups called Florida Antifa, South Florida Antifa, and other such antifa based groups. They are groups of people who organize and they get funds from donors for their activities. The donors are often private individuals who sympathize, but to get that group to travel (most of the members don't have a lot of money) someone infuses some funds to pay their travel expenses and food and such, and maybe some extra as an incentive to participate. It's not controversial, and it's not an illegal practice.
That's not being paid to protest. That's being paid to do stuff related to protesting.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:12 pm

LOL. It's the same thing. If the DNC or RNC, through PACs or whatever, funds a protest group so they can travel to a protest, buy signs and such, and eat, etc., while on protesting trips, then that's paying people to protest. Saying that they're "paid to protest" does not require there to be tax forms and an actual employer/employee relationship.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:22 pm

Do you have evidence that people are being bussed around in large numbers to different protests? And being fed while at a protest isn't the reason someone turns up to protest. :lol: Seriously, dude.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:06 pm

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MIC DROP
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Jason » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:18 pm

Mic drop? She's just tarred anyone who is pro human rights as a racist. While I'm sure there are Nazis and racists hiding behind free speech and cheering the murder of black people by police, they're not even close to being a significant minority of the people who want to preserve our rights and freedoms. Implying otherwise is just toxic post-truth rhetoric, but that's what the world has come to expect from the left who treat this more as a rap battle slinging diss tracks for emotional effect on their audience than anything more remotely connected with facts and reality.

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