Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post Reply
User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 35146
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Svartalf » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:31 pm

I've already seen that particular image, do you know where that ax and block are exposed?

and seriously, that ax is narrow for the job it has to do, it would need a seriously adroit and sober headsman to do a proper job with it.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 63534
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by JimC » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:49 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:33 pm
Feudalism is alive and well. Not only do we see it played out between so-called 'warlords' in disordered societies, and between and within criminal groups in ordered societies, but one might say that its precepts and structures are still expressed through bartered systems of national and international economics - where modern peasants, villeins, and serfs (the working class) are obliged to live according to conditions imposed from above and to pay 'homage' (labour, taxes, rent, interest) to the vassal class (service suppliers, employers) before meeting their own needs, where the vassals are granted a franchise by the nobility (investors, shareholders, incorporated institutions) who acquire special rights of operation from the Crown (governments) who in turn maintain and enforce the structural systems negotiated with the nobility through the rule of law (where the State makes the rules and calls it 'the law'). As in the feudalism of yore, the nobility are the linchpin of the entire system - lending support to the nominal Crown (political parties) in exchange for protection (legally-backed right to exploit the rest of society).
I can hear the incredibly high-pitched "twang" of an analogy stretched almost to breaking point... :tea:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 63534
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by JimC » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:50 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:12 pm
... and if you don't pay your tribute to the Crown ....

Image
Careful with that axe, Eugene... :?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 26307
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:29 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:49 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:33 pm
Feudalism is alive and well. Not only do we see it played out between so-called 'warlords' in disordered societies, and between and within criminal groups in ordered societies, but one might say that its precepts and structures are still expressed through bartered systems of national and international economics - where modern peasants, villeins, and serfs (the working class) are obliged to live according to conditions imposed from above and to pay 'homage' (labour, taxes, rent, interest) to the vassal class (service suppliers, employers) before meeting their own needs, where the vassals are granted a franchise by the nobility (investors, shareholders, incorporated institutions) who acquire special rights of operation from the Crown (governments) who in turn maintain and enforce the structural systems negotiated with the nobility through the rule of law (where the State makes the rules and calls it 'the law'). As in the feudalism of yore, the nobility are the linchpin of the entire system - lending support to the nominal Crown (political parties) in exchange for protection (legally-backed right to exploit the rest of society).
I can hear the incredibly high-pitched "twang" of an analogy stretched almost to breaking point... :tea:
Image
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 21489
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:08 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:49 pm
Hermit, the Hasburgs were not Dutch! Feudalism was imposed by various empires but it was not Dutch. The Dutch have never known feudalism. The Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden was the rise of Nederland as a country and before that it did not exist.
Of course the Habsburgs were not Dutch. Originally they were Swiss. Then they branched out. The ones that controlled the Low Countries (the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg) were the Spanish Habsburgs. If you wish to argue that there was no such thing as feudalism in the Netherlands because of the Habsburgs you'll have to be equally as absurd in the case of Austria, Italy, Hungary, Spain, Germany and most of eastern Europe right up to Russia. All of them were controlled by one Habsburg or another. Damn those Swiss, spreaders of feudalism.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 pm
People who quote themselves are either neurotic arseholes or inveterate trolls or both.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 13462
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:58 am

Still not Dutch feudalism. You cant seem to get that.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 26307
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:04 am

Every country, to a greater or lesser extent, reflects its own history in the best possible light.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 13462
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:11 am

Very easy to say Brian.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 26307
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:23 am

Uncontroversially so. While every nation will cast its history in the best light there's not a lot to chose between them before the shift from energy produced by labour to Carbons took hold.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 51882
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:36 am

Brian Peacock wrote:... and if you don't pay your tribute to the Crown ....

Image
. Image
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 21489
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:45 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:58 am
Still not Dutch feudalism. You cant seem to get that.
So you keep saying.

Unless today's inhabitants are not the descendants of the people who lived there in previous centuries your point is not worth the keystrokes you used in your attempt to make it. Firstly, the Habsburgs could not possibly impose a feudal system without the cooperation of the native Dutch who mattered. Secondly, the Habsburgs did not introduce feudalism to the Low Lands. Feudalism in the part the Low Lands now known as the Netherlands predates them by 650 years.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 pm
People who quote themselves are either neurotic arseholes or inveterate trolls or both.

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 51882
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:10 am

Stop feuding you two!
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 9981
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Pre-Modernist
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by rainbow » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am

laklak wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am
Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
I'm not so convinced.

In Africa, many areas reverted to a sort of communalism, which is feudal in nature. Locally there are chiefs and headmen that wield power over their control of the land. In a society where wealth is limited such as subsistence farming, being denied access to land ( or getting the worst piece of rocky unarable land) makes a person unable to support themselves and their families.
Nyerere tried to break this by creating communal farms but that failed miserably. The better option was to get commercial farmers to employ locals so that they could get a cash wage, educate their children, and thereby get out of the grinding poverty.

...so in this case capitalism is 'a' solution. 'The Best', I'm not so sure.
aingira usaina duzu

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 21489
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:33 am

rainbow wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am
laklak wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am
Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
I'm not so convinced.

In Africa, many areas reverted to a sort of communalism, which is feudal in nature. Locally there are chiefs and headmen that wield power over their control of the land. In a society where wealth is limited such as subsistence farming, being denied access to land ( or getting the worst piece of rocky unarable land) makes a person unable to support themselves and their families.
Nyerere tried to break this by creating communal farms but that failed miserably. The better option was to get commercial farmers to employ locals so that they could get a cash wage, educate their children, and thereby get out of the grinding poverty.

...so in this case capitalism is 'a' solution. 'The Best', I'm not so sure.
Hey, rainbow. Laklak is trying to make himself a home in eSwatini. He has to talk himself into viewing feudalism as a better solution for that reason alone.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 pm
People who quote themselves are either neurotic arseholes or inveterate trolls or both.

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 18124
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by laklak » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:59 am

A manor house would be nice, I'll admit.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Joe and 6 guests