Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

[Brian Peacock]

Oh Jesus. Did he do this on purpose - did he know this could set me off? I'm too busy today to devote a rant to this. Maybe in the coming days. Although, the current AD that I'm on isn't conducive to ranting. Sigh. This topic could deserve a rant.

It's not all about your mate. Rest easy.

[pErvinalia]

He trolling me, I can feel it. My rant gland is twitching...

[L'Emmerdeur]

The way capitalism is managed makes all the difference; a robber baron approach doesn't work in the long run.

"To My Fellow Plutocrats: You Can Cure Trumpism"

Our new president was swept into power through exactly the kind of populist anger I predicted. He was an historically terrible candidate, and his behavior and actions as President have confirmed my worst fears. There is a thuggish, violent undercurrent to everything he says, tweets and does. Even scarier, his supporters relentlessly attack our democratic norms and institutions. The free press (and reality itself) is under assault. But given the stunningly insufficient way in which Hillary Clinton spoke to the economic and status concerns of so many voters, it shouldn’t have surprised us that Trump won. People are hurting, and they lashed out—by voting for the guy who was lashing out too.

...

Our lives of ostentatious luxury might be forgiven if all boats were rising as fast as our 200-foot yachts. But they’re not. In fact, as we few continue to capture the benefits of almost all of our nation’s economic growth via a trillion dollar a year transfer of wealth from wages to profits, millions of American families are sinking out of the middle class. It is this winner-take-all economy, and the indefensible and obvious injustice it represents, that creates the justifiable anger that threatens our civility, our national cohesion and our democracy itself. A century ago, as communism and fascism threatened to overrun Europe, our nation struck a grand bargain: We plutocrats would continue to be tolerated—even celebrated—as long as broadly rising incomes meant that each new generation of Americans continued to do better than the last. But through the policies we championed in the corridors of power and through the longstanding social norms we violated in the corporate boardroom, we broke our end of that bargain. And now the pitchforks are coming for us, my friends, from both the right and the left.

I believe that we in the American political and economic elite face an extraordinarily inconvenient but undeniable truth: Our country will not get better until our fellow citizens feel better; and they will not feel better until they actually do better. And this is the hard part for many of you: The American people will not do better until they are actually paid more.

And they won’t be paid more until we change the way we manage our economy. This is the stark, simple fact at the heart of our ailing political system. Nothing is going to get better until we enact laws and standards that persuade or oblige every business to pay every worker a fair, dignified and livable wage. Everything else, from Trump on down, is a distraction or a lie.

[Animavore]

Nick Hanauer really is the anti-Trump. And unlike that scumbag he understands reality.

[pErvinalia]

I keep seeing his articles on Facebook. Who is he?

[Animavore]

He's a was an early investor of Amazon and general entrepreneur. He was one of the people behind Seattle having its minimum wage increased to $15 an hour, which is working out very well. He's a major critic of other billionaires, neoliberalism, and the cult of "trickle-down".

[pErvinalia]

Ahh that explains it. A former Ratskepper who lives in Seattle posts his articles on Facebook.

[Animavore]

Two books i read 'cause of him. 22 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism and Capital in the 21st Century. Both destroy capitalist myths, trickle-down, laisse faire, minimum wage assumptions, and tackle growing inequality. The latter especially is incredibly well researched pulling a couple of hundred years of data from dozens of countries.

[Scot Dutchy]

I always think social democracy is the best solution. Allow free enterprise but also makes sure everyone pays for the social system. We were more socialistic than we are now but still we are not doing too badly. There certain things that only socialism can achieve; universal health care, universal education and social care. Only socialism can look after everyone.

Pure capitalism is a monster. I dont think 42 has a clue about what he is talking about. Pure laissez faire is pure corruption. You destroy your opponent by any means possible and make sure you are the only supplier left in the market. As for your workers exploitation is the name of the game. Just hire and fire. Make sure people are as poor as church mice.

[Animavore]

Of course pure capitalism is nonsense. Back in the 1800s, when they banned child labour in cotton mills - just cotton mills, mind - capitalists cried and cried, talking about "natural rights" to a contract and such.

Now no capitalist would dare suggest child labour in the West. Capitalism has always had rules and regulations enforced on it. Without rules they would cut corners and dump their white everywhere.

The likes of Bolivia are a lesson. Here's another in how shit capitalism can be.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... are_btn_tw

Unfettered capitalism is every bit as harmful as Communism or any other ideology given free reign, regardless of what True Believers say.

[Forty Two]

I always think social democracy is the best solution. Allow free enterprise but also makes sure everyone pays for the social system. We were more socialistic than we are now but still we are not doing too badly. There certain things that only socialism can achieve; universal health care, universal education and social care. Only socialism can look after everyone.

Pure capitalism is a monster. I dont think 42 has a clue about what he is talking about. Pure laissez faire is pure corruption. You destroy your opponent by any means possible and make sure you are the only supplier left in the market. As for your workers exploitation is the name of the game. Just hire and fire. Make sure people are as poor as church mice.

But, socialism, if one looks around the world and historically where it has actually been implement, can hardly be said to "look after everyone." Uncle Milton does not suggest that "everyone" is taken care of, and he notes that no system does that. He explains why free markets achieve better results.

I don't see where I said anything about "pure laissez faire" and neither did Uncle Milton, who explains throughout any of his writings and available videos that there is a role for government.

Capitalism, however, as Uncle Milton points out, was responsible for the greatest elevation of the poor to either less poor or not poor in all of human history. Far from keeping people poor, it has had the opposite effect. Now if you want to look to where people are really poor, and oppressed, you need look no further than countries that actually implemented socialism.

A key point in your post, Dutchy, is that you acknowledge free market capitalism within social democracy as the way to go, which, of course, is not socialism.

[Scot Dutchy]

Fuck Milton sideways sunshine.

[pErvinalia]

But it's not capitalism either, by the same measure. It's a mix. I.e social democracy has been the greatest lifterer out of poverty.

[pErvinalia]

Fuck Milton sideways sunshine.

[Forty Two]

Has someone referred to "unfettered" capitalism?

Having rules and regulations =/= socialism. This is the myth of the modern Progressive movement, which suggests that if you have a police force, or public schools, then "see, socialism is good." That's not socialism, though, and police forces and public schools existed before socialism.

With regard to child labor, the reason child labor was gotten rid of was prosperity made possible in the West by free market capitalism. Look at the socialist countries around the world. Is there anyone who would seriously suggest that their working conditions were better? Where are the 10 year olds working in factories today? Capitalist countries, or socialist ones?

There does not appear to be a conflict between capitalism and minimum working ages, any more than there is a conflict between capitalism and a smoking or driving age.