Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

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Whose Hard Brexit do you want to get shafted by?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Labour's Hard Brexit!
0
No votes
Tory Hard Brexit
1
13%
Cheese or bacon or something
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Rum wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:02 am
Well that is just nonsense.
What is?
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 am

Catalonia, should it sever from Spain and reach independence would certainly be blackballed from the EU...
Scotland, given it history an d its general friendliness with the Union, might not be, but I guess it would still have to go through the whole rigmarole of joining again, except it already fills most requirements.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 am

Rum, I think Scot meant by (destruction of the UK) the EU encouraging moves to Scottish independence by indicating it would make EU membership for an independent Scotland a fairly easy passage...
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:29 am

It's high time The Scots too wing and flew away from the German domination that has been their lot for 330 years.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am

JimC wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 am
Rum, I think Scot meant by (destruction of the UK) the EU encouraging moves to Scottish independence by indicating it would make EU membership for an independent Scotland a fairly easy passage...
I am surprised by Brexiteers who want to destroy an organisation that has benefited millions of Europeans and expect to get off scot free.
The UK has in all its 40 years of membership tried to de-rail, take over and just being totally against any progression to greater unity.
It is obvious that a small minority of mainly Little Englanders are behind it. The Scots and Irish both North and South are very pro EU.
It is the arrogance of these Little Englanders that in the view of many that gets their backs up. The now famous phrases; "Cherry picking" and "Have your cake and eat it" sums up the attitude of the Little Englanders. Thrown in with "We had the largest empire ever you know" just puts them beyond the pale.

Now they dont have a plan except "save our money at all cost". Why are so many moving either themselves or their money abroad?
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:35 am

JimC wrote:Is there any politically and legally possible pathway to remain?
The Tory government, supported in coalition by the DUP, the self-serving political wing of the old testament, will fight tooth-a-nail to stay in power. At the moment they have a real born-to-rule kind of political impetus which stamps their policy objectives with a sickly brand of self-authorising, self-righteous entitlement.

When Parliament reconvenes after the summer break they'll push through a blatant bit of gerrymandering which is estimated to increase their number of MPs by 40 even as it reduces the overall total by 50 constituencies. In a best worse-case scenario they'll cling to the tiller untill B-Day before calling a general election, and if Labour get in (which is unlikely) they'll just sit back smugly and blame the post-Brexit fallout on them.

There are mounting calls for a second referendum, one that seeks public approval on the final agreement before B-Day, but they're heading this off with the idea of a so-called "blind Brexit", where we leave the EU on B-Day without an agreement but negotiations on the final settlement continue during an indeterminate transition period thereafter. It's basically a no-deal-lite Brexit that placates the nervous Tory voter.

In this respect the Tories are adopting a kind of scattergun approach to their Brexit PR, turning internal dispute and confusion into a number of conflicting and contradictory positions, all of which are promoted as viable options even as the EU says "You gotta be kidding me man. Pull the other one - it's got bells on."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:39 am

JimC wrote:If Brexit happens, they may well call for another vote, then join the EU as a separate entity. Border control issues would be horrendous...
TlBorder control isn't an issue. All it needs is a wall... A big, beautiful wall... And England are going to pay for it!
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:13 am

The tories are very good at gerrymandering. Now along with the ID question at voting booths voter suppression will be equal to that of the Americans.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:38 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:35 am
JimC wrote:Is there any politically and legally possible pathway to remain?
The Tory government, supported in coalition by the DUP, the self-serving political wing of the old testament, will fight tooth-a-nail to stay in power. At the moment they have a real born-to-rule kind of political impetus which stamps their policy objectives with a sickly brand of self-authorising, self-righteous entitlement.

When Parliament reconvenes after the summer break they'll push through a blatant bit of gerrymandering which is estimated to increase their number of MPs by 40 even as it reduces the overall total by 50 constituencies. In a best worse-case scenario they'll cling to the tiller untill B-Day before calling a general election, and if Labour get in (which is unlikely) they'll just sit back smugly and blame the post-Brexit fallout on them.

There are mounting calls for a second referendum, one that seeks public approval on the final agreement before B-Day, but they're heading this off with the idea of a so-called "blind Brexit", where we leave the EU on B-Day without an agreement but negotiations on the final settlement continue during an indeterminate transition period thereafter. It's basically a no-deal-lite Brexit that placates the nervous Tory voter.

In this respect the Tories are adopting a kind of scattergun approach to their Brexit PR, turning internal dispute and confusion into a number of conflicting and contradictory positions, all of which are promoted as viable options even as the EU says "You gotta be kidding me man. Pull the other one - it's got bells on."
Horrifyingly, this is an incredibly accurate description of what's happening in this country's politics right now.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:32 pm

I don't know if this is anything to do with Brexit, but I've just seen Spam advertised on the telly, making it out to be a really versatile amazing food. Are they trying to capture the market before heavily processed tinned pig is the only affordable meat product anyone has access to?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:35 pm

given the European Pork industry, I wonder how much of the spam sold in the UK happens to come from Danish pigs, if not actually Made in Denmark
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Actually it would be Germany or Spain.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:22 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am
JimC wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 am
Rum, I think Scot meant by (destruction of the UK) the EU encouraging moves to Scottish independence by indicating it would make EU membership for an independent Scotland a fairly easy passage...
I am surprised by Brexiteers who want to destroy an organisation that has benefited millions of Europeans and expect to get off scot free.
The UK has in all its 40 years of membership tried to de-rail, take over and just being totally against any progression to greater unity.
It is obvious that a small minority of mainly Little Englanders are behind it. The Scots and Irish both North and South are very pro EU.
It is the arrogance of these Little Englanders that in the view of many that gets their backs up. The now famous phrases; "Cherry picking" and "Have your cake and eat it" sums up the attitude of the Little Englanders. Thrown in with "We had the largest empire ever you know" just puts them beyond the pale.

Now they dont have a plan except "save our money at all cost". Why are so many moving either themselves or their money abroad?
If you think other countries are members of the EU for any other reason than self interest you are being colossally naive. They are all in ot for what they can get out of it, mostly financially. Just because Mrs Thatcher (a woman I have no sympathy or political leanings towards) was tough in her negotiations it was because that was the sort of woman she was and she tried to get a better 'deal' than we had, rightly or wrongly, just as every other member does for themselves.

If Germany gets its way with 'ever closer union' - a goal I would have supported incidentally if we had remained - you will see other countries, worried about their sovereignty going through similar exercises to that of the UK. Italy already is to some extent because they are rebelling about austerity.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Rum wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:22 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am
JimC wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 am
Rum, I think Scot meant by (destruction of the UK) the EU encouraging moves to Scottish independence by indicating it would make EU membership for an independent Scotland a fairly easy passage...
I am surprised by Brexiteers who want to destroy an organisation that has benefited millions of Europeans and expect to get off scot free.
The UK has in all its 40 years of membership tried to de-rail, take over and just being totally against any progression to greater unity.
It is obvious that a small minority of mainly Little Englanders are behind it. The Scots and Irish both North and South are very pro EU.
It is the arrogance of these Little Englanders that in the view of many that gets their backs up. The now famous phrases; "Cherry picking" and "Have your cake and eat it" sums up the attitude of the Little Englanders. Thrown in with "We had the largest empire ever you know" just puts them beyond the pale.

Now they dont have a plan except "save our money at all cost". Why are so many moving either themselves or their money abroad?
If you think other countries are members of the EU for any other reason than self interest you are being colossally naive. They are all in ot for what they can get out of it, mostly financially. Just because Mrs Thatcher (a woman I have no sympathy or political leanings towards) was tough in her negotiations it was because that was the sort of woman she was and she tried to get a better 'deal' than we had, rightly or wrongly, just as every other member does for themselves.

If Germany gets its way with 'ever closer union' - a goal I would have supported incidentally if we had remained - you will see other countries, worried about their sovereignty going through similar exercises to that of the UK. Italy already is to some extent because they are rebelling about austerity.
Does not square with the facts. Italy is being Italy and over 80% support the EU. You are making the same mistake as the Brexiteers. Interpreting actions as anti EU but in fact they are anti government. Which country is going down the UK path? None. They all know which side their bread is buttered and it is a pity the 27% of the UK did not.
The trouble with Maggie she had 1950's gentlemen opposite her and not hard nosed Luxembourg bankers.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:36 pm

There you go again making up facts to support your point of view. I was a remainer but I am able to look the facts straight in the eye.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... ver-leave/

"The new coalition government is founded on Euroscepticism, with The League party still hoping that the Eurozone implodes from within, allowing Italy to leave and return to the lira.

The Five Star Movement, the other half of the coalition, has edged back from earlier promises to hold a referendum on the euro, insisting that for now it wants to remain in the Eurozone".

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