Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post Reply

Whose Hard Brexit do you want to get shafted by?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Labour's Hard Brexit!
0
No votes
Tory Hard Brexit
1
13%
Cheese or bacon or something
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 8588
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:56 am

So did Scotland make a mistake when it voted no to independence?
Men we shall have only as we make manhood the object of the work of the schools—intelligence, broad sympathy, knowledge of the world that was and is, and of the relation of men to it—this is the curriculum of that Higher Education which must underlie true life. On this foundation we may build bread winning, skill of hand and quickness of brain, with never a fear lest the child and man mistake the means of living for the object of life. . . .

W.E.B Du Bois

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:52 am

If Brexit happens, they may well call for another vote, then join the EU as a separate entity. Border control issues would be horrendous...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 18446
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Hermit » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:30 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:56 am
So did Scotland make a mistake when it voted no to independence?
Where are you off to with that? I thought this thread was about Brexit.

Still, I'll bite: No. An independent Scotland lacks the economic wherewithal to survive.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 8588
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:36 am

I was just thinking about it. I don't have an opinion on it.

Anyway, what you said sounds complicated to figure out. Has anyone done it yet? I bet someone has at least attempted to look at whether or not brexit is ultimately going to hurt them more than leaving would have. But who cares. You can't see Brexit when you're voting no to independence, and making random decisions is mad -eh?
Men we shall have only as we make manhood the object of the work of the schools—intelligence, broad sympathy, knowledge of the world that was and is, and of the relation of men to it—this is the curriculum of that Higher Education which must underlie true life. On this foundation we may build bread winning, skill of hand and quickness of brain, with never a fear lest the child and man mistake the means of living for the object of life. . . .

W.E.B Du Bois

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 34667
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:52 am

If you break down the way the regions voted, Scotland voted to remain by a substatial majority. They were winners in terms of funding from the EU so they had their practical hats on. An independent Scotland would have had to reapply to join they were told, by Brussels, who discourage regional nationalism big time. The sentiment against being part of the UK added to that vote I would say.

Perversely areas which voted to leave include some which benefit greatly from membership. These include the North East, Wales and. Cornwall, amongst many others. London voted to remain mostly I would say because of its cosmopolitan character.

The pattern is fragmented and the leave vote I think won mostly because of the notion of ‘taking back control’ because of a perception, at least partially real, that we were slowly becoming part of an evolving European state.

Personally I think a rerun is highly unlikely barring something unforeseen. I doubt even the reemergence of the troubles in Ireland would trigger that.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 18446
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Hermit » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:09 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:36 am
I was just thinking about it. I don't have an opinion on it.

Anyway, what you said sounds complicated to figure out. Has anyone done it yet? I bet someone has at least attempted to look at whether or not brexit is ultimately going to hurt them more than leaving would have. But who cares. You can't see Brexit when you're voting no to independence, and making random decisions is mad -eh?
Yeah, it's complicated alright. Many experts have looked at the situation and have come up with many conclusions, every one of which contradicts at least one other. The economy is known as "the dismal science" for a good reason, though not the one Thomas Carlyle had in mind when he came up with that epithet in 1849 while writing an article in favour of slavery.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 31728
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:51 am

JimC wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:54 am
Is there any politically and legally possible pathway to remain?
the Article of Doom hath been activated, I fear that there's nothing to do, especially since the British have been so insufferable over the last nearly years.. the rest of Eujrope are too happy to be rid of them and to be able to make them squirm at last.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 8479
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:52 am

The UK cannot cancel the Art. 50 letter. There is no provision. To cancel the whole thing would require changing Art 50 which is a long process of passing a Bill through the EU parliament, Commission and Council with final ratification in the parliaments of the 29 nations. The problem is then what position do you return to. You cant return to pre-Art. 50 letter days. No other country would accept that. So the UK would be back in but with no privileges and refunds paying her full whack. I dont think the Brexiteers would accept that.
In Art. 50 there is a two year transition period which can be extended which would require a majority vote in the Council. The UK has not officially applied for an extension.
It is a total mess but one the hard liners envisaged as plan A failed; the destruction of the EU something also supported by Trump and Putin but for different reasons. The UK in their typical arrogance expected to take the popular vote in the rest of EU when they left. It never materialised. The solidarity shown by the other members shocked the Brexiteers. There was never a plan B.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 45875
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:53 am

I don't think it can be cancelled. The process for exit has formally begun. The only way it could be cancelled is if the EU agreed with it.

edit: in reply to Hermit. Edit: a number of posts and/or pages ago. Sorry. :oops:
Last edited by pErvinalia on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 31728
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:53 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:56 am
So did Scotland make a mistake when it voted no to independence?
In a Way, it did, but at any rate a newly independent Scotland might have had to go throughj any number of hoops before being admitted into the EU.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 8479
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:57 am

Svartalf wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:53 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:56 am
So did Scotland make a mistake when it voted no to independence?
In a Way, it did, but at any rate a newly independent Scotland might have had to go throughj any number of hoops before being admitted into the EU.
The EU did say it would make it as smooth as possible. This also true of the unification of Ireland.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 31728
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:03 am

"As smooth as possible" does not mean free of various hoops, just says they won't be placed unduly high on purpose.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 34667
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:37 am

The EU is very much against the splintering of members States as far as I can see. They would certainly not be encouraging Scotland to part from the UK. Having said that with the UK out, all bets would be off.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 8479
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:56 am

Rum wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:37 am
The EU is very much against the splintering of members States as far as I can see. They would certainly not be encouraging Scotland to part from the UK. Having said that with the UK out, all bets would be off.
The EU has stated that on many occasions as seen with Catalonia but the attitude of the tory party has altered their view. Trying to destroy the EU was not a good plan and will never be forgotten I am afraid. Even the destruction of the UK is still on the cards.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 34667
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:02 am

Well that is just nonsense.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Scot Dutchy and 7 guests