Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

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Whose Hard Brexit do you want to get shafted by?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Labour's Hard Brexit!
0
No votes
Tory Hard Brexit
1
13%
Cheese or bacon or something
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

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Strontium Dog
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Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Strontium Dog » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:01 pm

At the moment, the Tories are in pole position with their version of Hard Brexit, but in the event that their strongly unable government collapses, Labour are waiting in the wings to implement their Hard Brexit.

The Tory Hard Brexit will involve withdrawing Britain from the single market and ending freedom of movement, thus wrecking our economy for decades and ruining the life choices of an entire generation.

Labour's Hard Brexit is exactly the same, but with the dishonest pretence that we can have all the benefits of being in the single market while not being in it, which is about as likely as my ISP allowing me to have all the benefits of cable broadband, TV and telecoms without paying for it.

So whose Hard Brexit would you prefer?
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:07 pm

It will be a flaccid Brexit.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Strontium Dog » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:09 pm

Hey, that's no way to talk about the choices offered by Her Majesty's Government and Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition.
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:32 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:Hey, that's no way to talk about the choices offered by Her Majesty's Government and Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition.
Bend over and take it.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:08 pm

The terms are relatively meaningless. 'Hard' simply means that the UK will be subject to the default international trading regulations regime rather than some tailor made arrangement with the EU. Nobody seems to have the evidence available as to the outcome of either path, though there is a gut reaction that the 'hard' route will be a tougher one. Frankly I have not seen any evidence either way - just fear tactics.

I blame fucking Cameron who started the whole palaver going.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by cronus » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:30 pm

EU will collapse under the next oil shock price rises....never hold onto the machine when your motorbike is crashing. A way to break every bone in your body.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:33 pm

Strontium Dog wrote: The Tory Hard Brexit will involve withdrawing Britain from the single market and ending freedom of movement, thus wrecking our economy for decades and ruining the life choices of an entire generation.
Nice hyperbole there. It's almost as if individual nations can't exist or something.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:17 pm

pErvin wrote:Nice hyperbole there. It's almost as if individual nations can't exist or something.
Our economic infrastructure is so tightly bound to our affiliation with the EU trading block that withdrawing will mean recreating upto half of the economy from a standing start. Mr Dog didn't suggest that Britain can't exist outside the EU, just that leaving it is going to have long-term consequence that make The Austerity look like a garden party at the Palace.
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As far as I can tell the only major difference between a Blue and Red Brexit is that the Labour party say that Parliament should have the final say on the final deal, with the hint of the possibility of taking up the whiff of a promise from the EU that we can drop the whole thing right up to the last if we don't like it. Labour and other opposition parties have also been pushing the idea that the who process should involve a cross-party commission with a nominally independent chair. The Tory papers have kept quiet about that. The Tories on the other hand are doing the 'Mother/Father knows best' thing, and saying that we should trust the claim that only they can get the best deal for Britain - and where not having a deal at all is better than any kind of deal which doesn't let us eat our cake and have it.

Latest polls suggest that the % of the population in favour of ditching the whole thing is gaining. Yesterday's Independent...
The outcome of the Brexit referendum would be reversed if it was held tomorrow, a poll suggests.

The Survation survey showed a clear majority of Britons (54 per cent) would vote to Remain in the European Union if another referendum was held, while 46 per cent would back Brexit.

As Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom signalled a more consultative approach, the Survation survey also showed just over half want a cross-party coalition of parties to negotiate the UK's exit from the EU, compared to less than a third who think it should fall to the Tory minority Government alone.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 20286.html
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:57 pm

It cant be ditched though and that is the problem. It is an agreement under international law. Art 50 is very clear there are two ways to finish the art 50 process. With or without an agreement. The UK has no say over ending it. It could try and get a mutual agreement but that is very unlikely to succeed. Getting the 27 to agree to something that many disagree with ie. allowing the UK to return to the same position with opt-outs. Sorry a no goer there. If, and that is a very big if, the 27 agree it will be at the cost of the UK's opt-outs which would mean taking on the Euro and Schengen. Do you see the UK agreeing on that? So it is an agreement whereby the three demands are accepted and a trade agreement is made based on the four freedoms or crashing out. I think crashing out will be the final course.
BTW Corbyn is offering the same as BoJo a fantasy Brexit; having your cake and eating it.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Strontium Dog » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:12 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:BTW Corbyn is offering the same as BoJo a fantasy Brexit; having your cake and eating it.
Not sure, but I think this counts as blasphemy. The hardcore JC supporters will have your guts for garters.
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:17 pm

They are welcome but I think my views in another place are well known about what I think of Corbyn. Any half decent socialist leader would have won that election. For him he did well but the opposition, the tories, was really the biggest mess we have seen.

He wants to cherry pick why would the EU allow that for him?
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:25 pm

I don't know if there's currently a single, unambiguous truth about Article 50 and the ongoing negotiations. Seems to me that everybody is heading along a track with no idea where it will eventually end up. Invoking Article 50 is about as final as it gets in terms of negating a treaty, but this is a political process - and we all know how... erm... pragmatic politicians can be sometimes eh?
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by cronus » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:58 pm

Civilizations are destroyed by their elites as Jared Diamond explains. If you want to know why the powers are flying you into a mountain range rather than a airport ask Crumple. :crumple:
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:02 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
pErvin wrote:Nice hyperbole there. It's almost as if individual nations can't exist or something.
Our economic infrastructure is so tightly bound to our affiliation with the EU trading block that withdrawing will mean recreating upto half of the economy from a standing start.
This has the distinct whiff of empty rhetoric about it. What exactly does "recreating up to half of the economy from a standing start mean"? And from what nether region did you pull "half" from? :tea:
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:07 pm

The EU accounts for c.44% of the UK's exports and c.53% of its imports.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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