Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Rum]

You’ve said this before and you were wrong. May in her speech just a few minutes ago talked about a delay. The EU will be flexible if it is in their interests, which an orderly exit is.

[Scot Dutchy]

You’ve said this before and you were wrong. May in her speech just a few minutes ago talked about a delay. The EU will be flexible if it is in their interests, which an orderly exit is.

How are they going to be flexible. We have not reached B day yet so how can I be wrong. Has the EU delayed anything? May is whistling down the wind. Did you not hear the EU leaders with one voice: NO CHANGE.

The EU has plans in place for a no deal Brexit. They have planned for all exits but has the UK. Get those lorry parks ready.

[Rum]

Thing is you think these issues through with your emotions. You hate the land of your origin so much you always seek out the worst outcome - with some glee it always seems to me. From earlier this morning:

"She said a new prime minister would have to scrap or extend Article 50, the mechanism taking Britain out of the EU on 29 March, "delaying or even stopping Brexit"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739

[JimC]

Hasn't a European court said that the UK could abandon Brexit? In law, it doesn't need another referendum, just a parliamentary vote, I gather...

[pErvinalia]

What a fucking shambles this whole thing has been. It's a good argument for not letting stupid people vote.

[Scot Dutchy]

Thing is you think these issues through with your emotions. You hate the land of your origin so much you always seek out the worst outcome - with some glee it always seems to me. From earlier this morning:

"She said a new prime minister would have to scrap or extend Article 50, the mechanism taking Britain out of the EU on 29 March, "delaying or even stopping Brexit"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739

You believe what May says? Extension without withdrawal agreement? My feelings for my place of birth has nothing to do with it. I believe in reality which is sorely missing in UK politics. May is finished and washed up.
Just read Art 50. The divorce has to be agreed upon then the discussion on future relationships (ie FTA) can take place and if required this time can extended. Not the other way round.
The HoC would surely have to be consulted about cancelling Art 50 but it does not have much time. Or is the UK a dictatorship. What happens if a Brexiteer is PM? There will be no cancelling of Art 50 then and no deal either.

[Rum]

I believe May is honourable. I don't agree with Tory policy as I am 'of the left' but she is as straight as they come.

May needs 158 votes to survive. At this point, it looks like a close run thing. Public declarations accounted for she will survive, but it is a secret ballot and some of the Tory ministers are real snakes and they certainly could vote contrary to their publicly declared loyalties. We will know later today.

[Scot Dutchy]

It is not a question of being honourable but also being realistic. She has always had problem with that. Was it realistic to have a quick jog around the EU and expect changes when it had been made absolutely clear to her there was nothing to be had? Madness.

[Svartalf]

Of course, she could always fall on her sword.

technically, delaying that vote was the political equivalent of doing just that.

[Svartalf]

Hasn't a European court said that the UK could abandon Brexit? In law, it doesn't need another referendum, just a parliamentary vote, I gather...

IIRC, the ECJ said that, but the fact is that what is in theory a simple act is practically faught with many complications, to start with, the fact that the treaties include no provisions for a country wanting back on their article 50 declaration, once it has been invoked.

[Svartalf]

What a fucking shambles this whole thing has been. It's a good argument for not letting stupid people vote.

What don't you understand in 'democracy'? "demos" is an old Greek word that means 'stupid'.

[Rum]

Arguably what we are seeing *is* democracy. It ain't pretty but it does reflect the mix of views and passions of the ordinary people of the county.

Of course we do also need some leadership...

[Jason]

This back-and-forth twaddling is mind-numbing. Is there going to be a second Brexit referendum or not?

[Scot Dutchy]

Hasn't a European court said that the UK could abandon Brexit? In law, it doesn't need another referendum, just a parliamentary vote, I gather...

IIRC, the ECJ said that, but the fact is that what is in theory a simple act is practically faught with many complications, to start with, the fact that the treaties include no provisions for a country wanting back on their article 50 declaration, once it has been invoked.

Well this it. Some Remainers seem to think everything will just go into full reverse and nobody will notice which of course could not be further from the truth. You cannot expect to cause such ructions without any price being exerted. Art 50 actually implies that to reapply after issuing an Art 50 letter is via Art 49 which would be completely joining again. Thus accepting the Euro and Schengen and no rebates. Quite a thought.

[Scot Dutchy]

This back-and-forth twaddling is mind-numbing. Is there going to be a second Brexit referendum or not?

It would have to be a bill passed by the HoC. Do you see that happening in the present climate?