Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by laklak » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:46 am

Hermit wrote:Of course it's a great idea - for people who have enough money to gain income through buying assets and selling them at a profit. I certainly liked the idea when I sold my investment property. From memory I paid the ATO around 15% of the taxable difference rather than 48.5%.
So it was OK for you, but you don't think others should benefit? What are you, some sort of Libertarian? I got mine so fuck all y'all other mofos? We pay a maximum of 20% on a long term capital gain (in most cases, certain investments are taxed up to 28%), the rate is based on your personal income level. It's a progressive tax. What is wrong with that? It's more than you paid. If it's short term it's treated as ordinary income, just like a salary, and is taxed at whatever rate your taxable income attracts. Is that different from how your system works?

I'm not sure what your point is.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:38 am

Forty Two wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -play.html

Ok, so some toolbag righties stormed a stage and disrupted a performance of Julius Caesar where Trump was depicted as Caesar. One asshat declared that the blood of the congressman who was shot the other day by the left wing nutter was on their hands.

They were properly removed from the performance and if they committed any crimes, like assault, they should have been arrested. I hope they were. It's abominable behavior, and they should not be engaging in these tactics. Regardless of how offensive someone might find a play depicting the President being assassinated, there is nothing at all illegal about it and it is free speech. We have plenty of movies where Presidents get assassinated, and otherwise treated poorly. They're killed, kidnapped, maimed, ridiculed, mocked, etc.

Putting on a play of Julius Caesar in modern context, with the President of the US as Caesar, is not a threat or any sort of incitement. If people see a play like that, and act violently,then that violence is their responsibility, not the responsibility of the people putting on the play.

It is not free speech to go into a private establishment theater and disrupt the performance. The theater security can remove them, and if called, the police should remove the offenders from the establishment, which is private property (even if it is open to the public to buy tickets).
How about no. The lefty/liberals are all traitors who just want gibmedats and have no loyalty to their heritage or country, the only thing they deserve is the Day of the Rope or helicopter rides. Fucking cunts the lot of them.
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:54 am

laklak wrote:
Hermit wrote:Of course it's a great idea - for people who have enough money to gain income through buying assets and selling them at a profit. I certainly liked the idea when I sold my investment property. From memory I paid the ATO around 15% of the taxable difference rather than 48.5%.
So it was OK for you, but you don't think others should benefit? What are you, some sort of Libertarian? I got mine so fuck all y'all other mofos?
That's a weird interpretation of what I said, which was
I also love how income gained through long term (12 months) capital gains is taxed at no more than 20% in the USA, no matter how rich or poor you are.
and
Of course it's a great idea - for people who have enough money to gain income through buying assets and selling them at a profit.
Got any more strawmen?

The fact is that the more money you have, the smaller the percentage you pay on your income.

And no, I will not contribute more to contribute to the perks of our politicians or the implementation of their absurd policies than I must. Every single cent of mine that went towards our erstwhile Speaker of the House, Julie Bishop, when she used a government helicopter at a cost of over $5000 to attend a fundraiser an hour's drive from her home, hurts. She was made to repay that, but she also claimed $800,000 in expenses on top of her parliamentary salary and perks in 2014 alone, none of which she repaid. Those expenses included almost $90,000 for a trip to Europe she felt entitled to because she was bidding for presidency of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. And it does not end there. When she retired after losing preselection to her seat a year later she got a $200,000 a year pension, indexed and not means tested, a "Golden Pass" for plane trips and other perks.

As for policies, I want as little of my money to go towards funding the billions of dollars our governments - conservative and Labor alike - provide to private schools above the money they save by not providing schools for students that go to them. I did study in one of them. Should I have been grateful to our Prime Minister when he attended the opening of its extensions because the government chipped in most of the money for it, including the Olympic-sized swimming pool that was part of it? Should I be happy when the government financed the acquisition of land by another school, because it felt it needed a second rifle range? All this, while students in government schools continue to swelter in classrooms without air conditioning when temperatures go above 40°C?

Fuck them. Fuck them all. While we have governments like the above, my spare money goes to my favourite charities, which is me, followed by Greenpeace and Oxfam, and the amount going to the latter will increase in line with the amount I can spare. I can happily spare any income above $50,000 a year.
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by rainbow » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:34 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Is there no relief? I'm finding this all very taxing. :tea:
Of course there is. All you have to do is have $5 000 000, or so and invest it in Gibraltar or the British Virgin Islands.

You will pay virtually no tax on income and capital gains.
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:42 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Forty Two wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -play.html

Ok, so some toolbag righties stormed a stage and disrupted a performance of Julius Caesar where Trump was depicted as Caesar. One asshat declared that the blood of the congressman who was shot the other day by the left wing nutter was on their hands.

They were properly removed from the performance and if they committed any crimes, like assault, they should have been arrested. I hope they were. It's abominable behavior, and they should not be engaging in these tactics. Regardless of how offensive someone might find a play depicting the President being assassinated, there is nothing at all illegal about it and it is free speech. We have plenty of movies where Presidents get assassinated, and otherwise treated poorly. They're killed, kidnapped, maimed, ridiculed, mocked, etc.

Putting on a play of Julius Caesar in modern context, with the President of the US as Caesar, is not a threat or any sort of incitement. If people see a play like that, and act violently,then that violence is their responsibility, not the responsibility of the people putting on the play.

It is not free speech to go into a private establishment theater and disrupt the performance. The theater security can remove them, and if called, the police should remove the offenders from the establishment, which is private property (even if it is open to the public to buy tickets).
How about no. The lefty/liberals are all traitors who just want gibmedats and have no loyalty to their heritage or country...
Our primary loyalties lie with rationality and reason. Conservatives are all about fear and how it drives them to discard rationality and reason for animalistic reaction.
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by laklak » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:05 pm

Hermit wrote: Fuck them. Fuck them all. While we have governments like the above, my spare money goes to my favourite charities, which is me, followed by Greenpeace and Oxfam, and the amount going to the latter will increase in line with the amount I can spare. I can happily spare any income above $50,000 a year.
We're in a sort of agreement, then. My favorite charity is also me, and my reasons for opposing further tax increases are the stupid things they spend it on. In our case I'm not talking about 5Gs for a helicopter, I'm more concerned with $700 hammers and 150 million each for fighter planes that can't carry weapons. While that sort of thing goes on (and make no mistake it WILL go on, no matter what bunch of imbeciles we elect) I'll do what I can to reduce my tax rates. As my only real income these days other than my pension is capital gains of one sort or another, I'll support whichever imbecile keeps that percentage as low as possible.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:04 pm

laklak wrote:
Hermit wrote:Of course it's a great idea - for people who have enough money to gain income through buying assets and selling them at a profit. I certainly liked the idea when I sold my investment property. From memory I paid the ATO around 15% of the taxable difference rather than 48.5%.
So it was OK for you, but you don't think others should benefit? What are you, some sort of Libertarian? I got mine so fuck all y'all other mofos? We pay a maximum of 20% on a long term capital gain (in most cases, certain investments are taxed up to 28%), the rate is based on your personal income level. It's a progressive tax. What is wrong with that? It's more than you paid. If it's short term it's treated as ordinary income, just like a salary, and is taxed at whatever rate your taxable income attracts. Is that different from how your system works?

I'm not sure what your point is.
The point is that whatever Merka does, it's worse than in the civilized world.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:06 pm

DaveDodo007 wrote: How about no. The lefty/liberals are all traitors who just want gibmedats and have no loyalty to their heritage or country, the only thing they deserve is the Day of the Rope or helicopter rides. Fucking cunts the lot of them.
Well, I must disagree. Thanks, though. Even if they are all gibmedat wanters with no loyalty to heritage or country, they deserve no such thing. And, being lifty or liberal is not treasonous. Even being 100% against the Constitution, and in favor of a dictatorship of the proletariat, or otherwise, is not treasonous.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 pm

Hermit wrote:
The fact is that the more money you have, the smaller the percentage you pay on your income.
In the US we have a progressive income tax system where the marginal rate goes up in stages as income goes up. The long term capital gains rate is a way to reduce taxation on capital gains in recognition of the fact that the money used to buy an equity which "gains" value has already been taxed. I.e., generally you take your after tax income and buy a stock. So, you're buying a piece of a company. That company goes up in value and the stock goes up in value. So, when you sell it, the increase in value is your capital gain. But, it's not the same as ordinary income because you've taken after-tax money and put it "at risk." You're not getting 100% write off if the stock goes to zero -- I mean, if you want to tax it as regular income, then shouldn't all stock losses result in reduced income? I buy a share of apple for $200 and it tanks to $50 vs. bought at $200 and goes up to $350. If I'm going to be socked for 28% or 39% on the $150 gain, shouldn't my loss be deducted from my income so I get the benefit of a reduced tax?

Also, another reason for reducing the long term capital gains tax is to encourage people to invest in long term investments.
Hermit wrote:
And no, I will not contribute more to contribute to the perks of our politicians or the implementation of their absurd policies than I must. Every single cent of mine that went towards our erstwhile Speaker of the House, Julie Bishop, when she used a government helicopter at a cost of over $5000 to attend a fundraiser an hour's drive from her home, hurts. She was made to repay that, but she also claimed $800,000 in expenses on top of her parliamentary salary and perks in 2014 alone, none of which she repaid. Those expenses included almost $90,000 for a trip to Europe she felt entitled to because she was bidding for presidency of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. And it does not end there. When she retired after losing preselection to her seat a year later she got a $200,000 a year pension, indexed and not means tested, a "Golden Pass" for plane trips and other perks.
Sounds like you folks in the civilized world have some problems to work out of your own. None of that seems to be an argument in favor of taxing the middling person out the wazoo on his TD Ameritrade Account, or the long term gain on the sale of his house.
Hermit wrote:
As for policies, I want as little of my money to go towards funding the billions of dollars our governments - conservative and Labor alike - provide to private schools above the money they save by not providing schools for students that go to them. I did study in one of them. Should I have been grateful to our Prime Minister when he attended the opening of its extensions because the government chipped in most of the money for it, including the Olympic-sized swimming pool that was part of it? Should I be happy when the government financed the acquisition of land by another school, because it felt it needed a second rifle range? All this, while students in government schools continue to swelter in classrooms without air conditioning when temperatures go above 40°C?
No, but that's why we need to get the largess out of the system, if possible. The government needs to be reigned in. Vote libertarian.
Hermit wrote:
Fuck them. Fuck them all. While we have governments like the above, my spare money goes to my favourite charities, which is me, followed by Greenpeace and Oxfam, and the amount going to the latter will increase in line with the amount I can spare. I can happily spare any income above $50,000 a year.
Well, that's mighty white of you. Too bad you're not the one who gets to determine the income level above which you ought to spare. There are a boat load of folks making $25k, who'd happy vote for you to spare a whole lot more. See how that works?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Forty Two wrote:The point is that whatever Merka does, it's worse than in the civilized world.
Though true, that is not the point I was making at all, ya dumbfuck. :P
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:46 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
The fact is that the more money you have, the smaller the percentage you pay on your income.
In the US we have a progressive income tax system where the marginal rate goes up in stages as income goes up. The long term capital gains rate is a way to reduce taxation on capital gains in recognition of the fact that the money used to buy an equity which "gains" value has already been taxed. I.e., generally you take your after tax income and buy a stock. So, you're buying a piece of a company. That company goes up in value and the stock goes up in value. So, when you sell it, the increase in value is your capital gain. But, it's not the same as ordinary income because you've taken after-tax money and put it "at risk." You're not getting 100% write off if the stock goes to zero -- I mean, if you want to tax it as regular income, then shouldn't all stock losses result in reduced income? I buy a share of apple for $200 and it tanks to $50 vs. bought at $200 and goes up to $350. If I'm going to be socked for 28% or 39% on the $150 gain, shouldn't my loss be deducted from my income so I get the benefit of a reduced tax?
I've already addressed this point. You get to deduct your capital losses from any future capital gains. - http://www.bankrate.com/taxes/capital-l ... -tax-bill/
Hermit wrote:
And no, I will not contribute more to contribute to the perks of our politicians or the implementation of their absurd policies than I must. Every single cent of mine that went towards our erstwhile Speaker of the House, Julie Bishop, when she used a government helicopter at a cost of over $5000 to attend a fundraiser an hour's drive from her home, hurts. She was made to repay that, but she also claimed $800,000 in expenses on top of her parliamentary salary and perks in 2014 alone, none of which she repaid. Those expenses included almost $90,000 for a trip to Europe she felt entitled to because she was bidding for presidency of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. And it does not end there. When she retired after losing preselection to her seat a year later she got a $200,000 a year pension, indexed and not means tested, a "Golden Pass" for plane trips and other perks.
Sounds like you folks in the civilized world have some problems to work out of your own. None of that seems to be an argument in favor of taxing the middling person out the wazoo on his TD Ameritrade Account, or the long term gain on the sale of his house.
In Oz your house isn't subject to capital gains tax unless it has been used for investment purposes (i.e. rental returns).
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:25 pm

Forty Two wrote:The long term capital gains rate is a way to reduce taxation on capital gains in recognition of the fact that the money used to buy an equity which "gains" value has already been taxed. I.e., generally you take your after tax income and buy a stock.
The money you use to buy an asset is not taxed again. The difference between the money you paid for its purchase that asset and the money you receive from its sale is. That is why the tax is called a capital gains tax. I see no problem with taxing capital gains after lumping them in with any other form of income like wages, salaries, perks and fringe benefits like private use of company cars, dividends and so forth.
Forty Two wrote:You're not getting 100% write off if the stock goes to zero
Correct. Losing your wages income stream is not so pleasant either when your job gets exported to Asia either.
Forty Two wrote:If I'm going to be socked for 28% or 39% on the $150 gain, shouldn't my loss be deducted from my income so I get the benefit of a reduced tax?
Investing in an asset is a form of gambling. Capital gains tax is not part of any government's risk insurance scheme.
Forty Two wrote:Sounds like you folks in the civilized world have some problems to work out of your own.
O yes, we certainly do. More than enough to drive anyone to despair. I manage to keep suicidal thoughts at bay, though, by reading articles about the US of A. Turns out the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Forty Two wrote:None of that seems to be an argument in favor of taxing the middling person out the wazoo on his TD Ameritrade Account, or the long term gain on the sale of his house.
Nobody's personal income has ever been taxed out of the wazoo. Not even when the top marginal rate was stuck somewhere around the 90% mark between 1942 and 1963, because even the highest earners paid the same low tax rate on the first dollars as the lowest. In those days the income tax regimen was not progressive in name only.
Forty Two wrote:...we need to get the largess out of the system, if possible. The government needs to be reigned in. Vote libertarian.
I actually find crooked politicians in a social democracy more manageable and tolerable as well as less brutal than unfettered capitalism.
Forty Two wrote:Too bad you're not the one who gets to determine the income level above which you ought to spare.
Oh, just have a look at that; another strawman. :roll:
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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:37 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
The fact is that the more money you have, the smaller the percentage you pay on your income.
In the US we have a progressive income tax system where the marginal rate goes up in stages as income goes up. The long term capital gains rate is a way to reduce taxation on capital gains in recognition of the fact that the money used to buy an equity which "gains" value has already been taxed. I.e., generally you take your after tax income and buy a stock. So, you're buying a piece of a company. That company goes up in value and the stock goes up in value. So, when you sell it, the increase in value is your capital gain. But, it's not the same as ordinary income because you've taken after-tax money and put it "at risk." You're not getting 100% write off if the stock goes to zero -- I mean, if you want to tax it as regular income, then shouldn't all stock losses result in reduced income? I buy a share of apple for $200 and it tanks to $50 vs. bought at $200 and goes up to $350. If I'm going to be socked for 28% or 39% on the $150 gain, shouldn't my loss be deducted from my income so I get the benefit of a reduced tax?
I've already addressed this point. You get to deduct your capital losses from any future capital gains. - http://www.bankrate.com/taxes/capital-l ... -tax-bill/
That's not the same thing, although it is a benefit. You don't get to take the loss off income to dollar for dollar reduce the tax by the same amount that you're taxed. So, at least it's a kiss on the cheek to lower the rate a bit. If you don't have a capital gain to offset, then then you took the risk and lost and get fucked.
pErvin wrote:
Hermit wrote:
And no, I will not contribute more to contribute to the perks of our politicians or the implementation of their absurd policies than I must. Every single cent of mine that went towards our erstwhile Speaker of the House, Julie Bishop, when she used a government helicopter at a cost of over $5000 to attend a fundraiser an hour's drive from her home, hurts. She was made to repay that, but she also claimed $800,000 in expenses on top of her parliamentary salary and perks in 2014 alone, none of which she repaid. Those expenses included almost $90,000 for a trip to Europe she felt entitled to because she was bidding for presidency of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. And it does not end there. When she retired after losing preselection to her seat a year later she got a $200,000 a year pension, indexed and not means tested, a "Golden Pass" for plane trips and other perks.
Sounds like you folks in the civilized world have some problems to work out of your own. None of that seems to be an argument in favor of taxing the middling person out the wazoo on his TD Ameritrade Account, or the long term gain on the sale of his house.
In Oz your house isn't subject to capital gains tax unless it has been used for investment purposes (i.e. rental returns).
That's outrageous, isn't it? I mean, it should be, right? A capital gains tax of ZERO! What "absurd policy" is that???? No civilized country would tax capital gains at zero....

LOL
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by laklak » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:07 pm

You can deduct certain capital losses here too, and use it to offset both capital gains and ordinary income. It's not particularly straight forward, though, unlike the rest of the simple and easily understandable tax code [/sarcasm]. George the Mage (my accountant) managed to get me a 90,000 capital loss when my ex wife got her home foreclosed on and it carried forward at 30K a pop for three years. I had a happy.

You can also defer capital gains by re-investing the entire profit in another investment vehicle, it's called a 1031 Exchange. It's very fucking complicated, though, and only defers your tax liability till you sell the new asset.

Here's the new, simplified IRS 1040 form:

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Re: Right Wing Regressives Need to Stop

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:41 pm

That's what it will be. They're already licking their chops to take away people's 401k money. You have too much! That's unfair!
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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