Brexit

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Brexit

Post by Feck » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:45 pm

Brexit Secretary David Davis will call for "a deal like no other in history"
Many people have shot themselves in the foot before .
But David Davis is going to the EU telling them we think we are better than them ,and weren't really friends anyway .
Then dropping his pants ramming a twelve- bore up his arse and expecting nobody in Europe will pull the trigger .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40321271
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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:52 am

He might as well call for every Briton to get a free a night out with the Bishop for all the good it will do. Under-reported in the right-leaning press the minister responsible for existing the European Union has exited the department for existing the European Union.
It has emerged that George Bridges has quit as a Brexit minister. He was highly rated by David Davis, his erstwhile boss, and had established himself as one of the most able ministers in the government – precisely the sort of person they can’t really afford to lose at this time. So why has he walked out now? We are only given a diplomatic answer: he’d been contemplating moving on for some time, and it seemed like a good time...

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/g ... ing-begun/
On Friday that other dead man walking, Chancellor Philip Hammond, said that Brexit negotiations should focus on jobs, growth, and the needs of business, despite yet another report finding that the kind of Brexit that business actually wants and needs is no Brexit at all.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

Yep it is going to be brutal. The tories have this wonderful idea that the EU will just turn over and give them everything they want. Well they going to be disappointed. The EU has laid out what it is offering and it very simple. In fact these will not be negotiations but simple demands made by the EU:

1. Human rights for all citizens
2. Paying outstanding commitments
3. Securing the Irish border

Only then will the EU discuss trade but those talks will be based on th Four Freedoms. Strange how the tories cant seem to understand these simple facts.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Brexit

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:45 am

I am strongly of the opinion that the majority of people who voted leave are pretty dumb.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:48 am

Rum wrote:I am strongly of the opinion that the majority of people who voted leave are pretty dumb.
Well they failed to look at the consequences and believed all the lies told by Farage et al.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:59 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Yep it is going to be brutal. The tories have this wonderful idea that the EU will just turn over and give them everything they want. Well they going to be disappointed. The EU has laid out what it is offering and it very simple. In fact these will not be negotiations but simple demands made by the EU:

1. Human rights for all citizens
2. Paying outstanding commitments
3. Securing the Irish border

Only then will the EU discuss trade but those talks will be based on th Four Freedoms. Strange how the tories cant seem to understand these simple facts.
I don't think Tories actually, really think that. What I think they think is that now they've painted themselves into a corner they don't have the guts (or the integrity or personal honour) to admit that all the stuff which the Leavers promised and argued for was rooted in lies, misinformation, and let's be brutal here, an unhealthy dollop of good old-fashioned xenophobia.

Part of the saving-face narrative now--which is basically a way to avoid responsibility--is to brand dissenters as 'enemies of the people', 'saboteurs', and 'remoaners' while deliberately setting things up as being only and forever always the EU's fault - in effect doubling-down on the calamity with more bare-faced lies and disingenuousness. This is why the Telegraph and The Daily Mail etc are peppering their coverage with journalists (I use that term loosely, they're more like people who have political opinions for money) and junior ministers berating the EU for looking at how to punishing the UK for leaving - when in fact the negotiations are predicated only on holding the UK to account for it's decision - "You want to leave? Well this is what leaving means, as well you know - it was all written down, agreed, and signed off."

The idea that this negotiation is a trade-deal and not anything but a clean-break divorce with no alimony settlement is, frankly, laughable. The horse-trading on market access etc can only take place between independent bodies--basically, we have to be out of the union to negotiate access to the union--and necessarily has to involve offers and reciprocations just like any other international negotiation - "What can you offer us for what you want" etc. With the UK economy on it's knees there's very little the EU needs from the UK at the moment, and with our main export to the EU being financial services the news that the likes of JP Morgan and Goldman-Sachs are deciding whether to move their European headquarters to Frankfurt or Paris takes even more off the table. Foreign investors in steal or car manufacturing etc will soon follow suit.

We, as a nation, might have voted for 'sovereignty' and 'secure borders' but in effect we've voted for a prolonged period of economic depression and national poverty which, I fear, will make us a meaner, less secure, more militarised and oppressed society while making The Austerity look like the garden of Eden by comparison.

Then again, I'm a remoaner so I would say that wouldn't I.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:23 pm

I agree Brian. The Brexiteers are completely out of their depth. They have a nine man team taking on 38 of the best negotiators in the world with a back team of 600 in the Commission. Barnier will make mince meat of them. The tory press is grabbing onto any personal utterances made by any EU politician. The Times grabbed onto Germany's foreign secretary's utterance and published as a German offer. Unless it come out of Barnier's mouth it has no validity. There is only one chief negotiator. The tory press is just sowing false news to cause a smoke screen.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... t-tf50.pdf

Behind a paywall but you see the German proposal bit which it is nothing of the sort.
https://behindthepaywallblog.wordpress. ... ng-street/
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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:29 pm

Murmurings are afoot: David Davies touted as possible replacement for May. Farage enthusiastic (of course) saying, "If Davies becomes Prime Minister I believe the British government will be genuinely committed to Brexit." - by which he means his wet-dream of a so-called hard Brexit. Have the Tories learned nothing from the recent election result? :roll:
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Svartalf » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 pm

the tories believe they are leaders and it is the duty of the little people to follow their betters without questions
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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:00 pm

Indeed. Even if they have neither map nor compass and even less idea of where we're heading and what we're supposed to do when we get there. Is 40 years in the wilderness is supposed to be a good deal for Britain?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Alan B » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:03 pm

If push comes to shove and Junker demands recompense for Brexit, then I think we tell him that it's been paid and it resides in his favourite tax haven, Luxembourg. All he has to do is extract the evaded and avoided UK tax...
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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:38 pm

It's not about Junker demanding anything Alan. We're parties to an agreement, a contract. We pay in to the EU and take out according to the terms of that agreement. This isn't a matter of personalities, of Junker vs May, this is about an orderly and legal mutual dissolution of a contract - regardless of what the Daily Mail might say.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Alan B » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:32 am

I get that.

OK I'll reword it. The money already exists in the EU Tax Haven in Luxembourg...
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power - Eric Hoffer.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:23 am

....and Panama, and Switzerland. ;)
In the general election campaign it was never clear in detail what the Conservative party’s Brexit policy really was. But it was clear who was in charge of it: Theresa May. Today, two weeks after the voters shattered the prime minister’s authority, the policy is even more unclear than it was before – but now no one can say who holds the reins either.

As the new parliament begins ... with a Queen’s speech very different from the one Mrs May planned in April – reports today suggested a U-turn on plans to limit free school meals, for example – her government battles to maintain surface calm. Beneath the surface, however, the battle of Brexit is under way. It is being fought out with increasing ruthlessness, amid signs that the weakened Mrs May is being pushed into a more liberal deal than the one she wanted....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-politics
Anyone else catching a whiff of Tory fudge?
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am

Typical Skinner:

"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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