Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:39 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:...When you have no records of who was living there...
What do you mean?
Well were all the residents registered as living there? The landlord has only the names of tenants but not of everyone who was living there. No requirement in Britain which is why you have illegal subletting. So if someone came along and claimed he lived there nobody could prove to the contrary and expect to get some money. Plus how about the story; all my documents went up in flames.
There's many ways to establish who is living at a certain address: council tax records, school records, utility, phone and ISP records, employment records and benefits records, GP and hospital records, etc. The problem here is not identifying who lived there, but who died where.
You are talking about refugees and the lowest end of society. Why do so many want to go to Britain? You can disappear.
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:50 pm

Hmm. I think you're over egging your pudding there Scotty. The idea that this block, or that social housing in general, or low rent premises in particular, are rammed full of undocumented person's doesn't really fly. Got any facts we can check?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by JimC » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:23 pm

There are bound to be some, I suspect, but not to the point where their numbers are significant...
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:39 pm

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by laklak » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:47 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:What do the expect! The richest and the poorest areas side by side.
Yep. Terrible idea. Keep those raggedy ass beggars away from me, they spoil the view. It's like flying. You're just getting comfortable with a bit of beluga and Dom, and those wretched steerage paupers walk past you, banging the seats with their cardboard suitcases and reeking of garlic and cheap sausages. Either board them from the back of the plane or put us on last.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:28 am

Teresa May is getting a real hammering over this. She seems to have become a scapegoat for the fire and for much else. The press have really got it in for her.

I'm no fan of her or the Tories and vote for the other side - always. But a couple of mis-steps over her response to the fire and she has got herself into a corner where whatever she does will now be criticised. #Deadmanwalking

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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:53 am

Good. There's a million person march planned for a couple of weeks. They are promoting a call for another election. Hopefully that happens, hopefully May runs as leader, and hopefully Corbyn can take advantage of the latest dislike for her.
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:53 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Hmm. I think you're over egging your pudding there Scotty. The idea that this block, or that social housing in general, or low rent premises in particular, are rammed full of undocumented person's doesn't really fly. Got any facts we can check?
Of course there are no facts that is the whole point. Just follow anyone coming into the country. Where do you register? How do you know who has come in? Are all people going through ferry ports registered? What documentation do you require to move around Britain? When ID can be an electric bill.
My time in the police was often spent trying to trace people. In the area I worked in Edinburgh we had three tower blocks almost Identical to Grenfell. 20 storeys with two lifts and a staircase. The Edinburgh Corporation did not have a clue who lived there. They had tenants and the rent was collected from some when the lifts were working. There was laughably an Election Register which was a waste of paper. When you went there you just had to take their word who they were. Only when you arrested someone were you able to check identity and not before.
They were pure dumping grounds for the poor as was the whole estate. Just watch Trainspotting to see what it was like. When you reach a certain level in society and your address becomes NFA you move into a totally different world. Because in the British psyche there is abhorrence to registering and id-cards it is an ideal situation for people just to disappear and plenty do.

BTW who is saying the tower was rammed full? It is Ramadan and more than 50% was muslim. How many were out eating and going to the mosque?
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:38 pm

pErvin wrote:Good. There's a million person march planned for a couple of weeks. They are promoting a call for another election. Hopefully that happens, hopefully May runs as leader, and hopefully Corbyn can take advantage of the latest dislike for her.
There'll olny be an election if the Tories can't form a government of get the Queen's speech through parliament (effectively the same thing). Right now she appears to have the numbers just in her favour.

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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:00 pm

Rum wrote:Teresa May is getting a real hammering over this. She seems to have become a scapegoat for the fire and for much else. The press have really got it in for her.

I'm no fan of her or the Tories and vote for the other side - always. But a couple of mis-steps over her response to the fire and she has got herself into a corner where whatever she does will now be criticised. #Deadmanwalking
I think she's become a totem for people's frustration and (justified) anger. She made great play of her personal qualities in the election, and spent a lot of time degrading the personal qualities of the opposition, and now people are applying her own standards to her own actions. Considering the state of the UK economy and housing sector at the moment (for example: Wealth gap rises as home ownership falls, says study) people are no longer so keen to indulge the Business, Property and Landlord Party that offers them little personal benefit while facilitates profits through cowboy-culture shortcuts and a slack approach to regulation.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Alan B » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:16 pm

The Guardian
Grenfell Tower families to be given 68 flats in luxury apartment complex
Grenfell Tower families to be given 68 flats in luxury apartment complex.
Sixty-eight flats in a luxury apartment complex where homes are on sale starting at £1.6m are being made available to families displaced by the Grenfell Tower fire.
Families who escaped the tower blaze will be able to take up permanent occupation in July and August in the apartments in the Kensington Row scheme about 1.5 miles south of Grenfell, where last Wednesday’s blaze left 79 people dead and missing and presumed dead.
The homes are within the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea but in the more affluent south end of the borough. They have been purchased by the Corporation of London and will become part of its social housing stock.
The most luxurious four-bedroom apartments are currently on sale in the development for £8.5m but the homes being released to Grenfell residents are part of the affordable quota being built and feature a more “straightforward” internal specification, but have the same build quality.
The complex includes a 24-hour concierge, swimming pool, sauna and spa and private cinema.
It is not yet clear if the Grenfell residents will have access to the facilities, which are normally not included for those in affordable housing.
“We’ve got to start by finding each of them a home,” said Tony Pidgley, chairman of the Berkeley Group, which built the homes. “Somewhere safe and supportive, close to their friends and the places they know, so they can start to rebuild their lives. We will work night and day to get these homes ready.”
My emphasis

Excellent news. This is apparently in response to Jeremy Corbyn's call to requisition luxury accommodation in the area.

That's well over £100 million on the open market. Guilty conscience, someone? :ask:
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:52 pm

Good stuff!
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:34 pm

Bah! They should ship 'em out to be with all the other poor people whose housing needs have been met by exporting them out of the capital. This government has no backbone. :roll:
[2012]

A number of London councils are planning to move housing benefit claimants outside the capital as cuts shrink the number of properties affordable to people on welfare, prompting fears that a policy to export poor residents of the capital will strengthen "divisive rightwing extremism" in northern towns.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr ... il-tenants
[2015]

More than 50,000 families have been silently shipped out of London boroughs in the past three years, an investigation by The Independent can reveal.

Leaked documents obtained by this newspaper expose the true scale of the “social cleansing” taking place across the capital as a result of welfare cuts and soaring rents. The figures show an unprecedented number of families who cannot afford to find homes in their local area being uprooted from their neighbourhoods and dumped further and further away from the capital, cut off from their relatives and support networks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 13854.html
[2015] Exporting Lewisham and Penge’s poor
[Jan 2017]

'Social cleansing' in one of London's richest boroughs as new wave of homeless families removed from capital

Westminster Council will start placing more families in need outside London from January 30 as it suffers a social housing crisis.

The drastic policy - introduced amid temporary accommodation rents as high as £900 a week for a four-bed home - will hit those who do not have certain care needs, children at key exam stages or jobs in the borough.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/so ... st-9632220
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Alan B » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:10 am

Apparently my link above about the 'luxury' flat housing for the surviving victims is Fake News dreamt up by the media. They are being re-housed in nearby flats, but not the ones depicted in the news items according to The Wright Stuff this morning. Can't find a suitable link at the moment.

It appears that these 'luxury flats' reports are a 'wind-up' by the press.
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Re: Horrific Fire Engulfs London Apartment Tower

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:13 am

I thought it a bit optimistic.
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