The Thread of Democrats

[pErvinalia]

If Trump is normal, we are all in trouble.

[Svartalf]

How can trump be normal when Normal is not trump?

[Cunt]

We don't want a wall. How is their reaction out of scale? Do you think a different president might have gotten a wall if they had tried a different approach? Is it possible for the same people to give one man a wall and feel justified but not another, and be correct, is what I'm asking. If it is, why might that be?

Their reaction is out of scale because it is 1% of the budget, and 99% of the 'budget news'.

As far as I know, everybody voted for extending the existing walls before this, including the democrats currently most opposed.

Walls aren't immoral, any more than border checkpoints are immoral.

Are you really the guy Trump was laughing at when he said he could shoot someone dead and you'd love him anyway? His behavior is normal, for a President? --dear god man

His behaviour is normal, though not for a President.

Would you rather keep having people who are presidential in there? Most of the men I love and respect are more rough-spoken than ANY politician. Almost everyone I have ever respected has said things worse than Trump has said.

For fuck sakes, his 'locker room talk' was described as unheard of, by fucking ignorant jocks who have said EXACTLY those things in locker rooms for decades.

I think the way politicians 'weaselspeak', talking without saying anything, is worse than being loud, clear and wrong sometimes.

It's more like the humans in reality, though I admit it is less like the TV politicians we are all coached to find respectful and wise.

[Sean Hayden]

I don't mind rough talk. I talk like that. I do expect a guy to know when to stop talking like that. Have you ever been around the guy who doesn't know that? Fuck that guy, fucking fuck that guy. Unless he's got an issue, in which case hey, we all have our faults right?

Anyway, Trump talks rough because he doesn't know anything else, or does he? How would I know, he's never showed it.

[pErvinalia]

Trump has clearly got issues. Nothing like having a mentally ill/compromised dunce as President.

[Cunt]

I don't mind rough talk. I talk like that. I do expect a guy to know when to stop talking like that. Have you ever been around the guy who doesn't know that? Fuck that guy, fucking fuck that guy. Unless he's got an issue, in which case hey, we all have our faults right?

Anyway, Trump talks rough because he doesn't know anything else, or does he? How would I know, he's never showed it.

He talked like that to the UN. First president to do so. He told Germany he wasn't going to keep protecting them from Russia if they were going to keep buying oil from Russia.

[Sean Hayden]

Come on, that isn't remotely related to what we were talking about.

It is interesting though. Unfortunately I don't know much about what it means to us or Europe for Germany to increase its reliance on Russian gas.

I will say that I'm not opposed to Russia's success. I would feel better about it if I knew Putin had a plan to leave his government better than he found it and with a more democratic bent.

[pErvinalia]

This idea that we want politicians to be more like the regular Joe is great and all, but why should it make sense to make a dumb fuck regular Joe President, when we wouldn't want a dumb fuck regular Joe to head the EPA, say? These jobs have a certain level of expertise in them, and this means that anyone lacking that level of expertise will be sub-optimal. Why should we put up with your suggestion just because you respect your regular mates, Cunt?

[rainbow]

Yeah but Hillary’s emails.

Yeah but Trump's... oh, yeah, there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong.

You don't think that lying to the American people is wrong?

Strange morality

Sure, that's one of the reasons why HIllary is such a cunt.

I wasn't talking about Hilary.

Back to Trump. You said "there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong"

Are you now contradicting yourself?

Are you admitting that Trump's lying to the American people is wrong?


Please make up your mind and be consistent, FFS.

[Forty Two]

Yeah but Hillary’s emails.

Yeah but Trump's... oh, yeah, there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong.

You don't think that lying to the American people is wrong?

Strange morality

Sure, that's one of the reasons why HIllary is such a cunt.

I wasn't talking about Hilary.

I was. This is the "Thread of Democrats." You bringing up Trump is just trying to sidestep the issues.

Back to Trump. You said "there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong"

There isn't.

Are you now contradicting yourself?

No.

Are you admitting that Trump's lying to the American people is wrong?

I don't recall admitting that Trump lied to the American people. Hillary lied to the American people over and over again, about significant things.

Lies are not always "wrong." And, not all untruths are "lies." Certainly, speaking an untruth is not necessarily "wrong." Take Alexandria Ocasio Cortez -- she made an untrue statement the other day about the world ending in 12 years. That's not accurate, and at least there is no basis for that statement. The world isn't going to end in 12 years. But, really, the time-frame involved wasn't the point she's making. So, it's not really "wrong" for her to be either incorrect in her understanding, or exaggerating to make a point.

Please make up your mind and be consistent, FFS.

I generally am. I did not change my position here.

[rainbow]

Yeah but Trump's... oh, yeah, there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong.

You don't think that lying to the American people is wrong?

Strange morality

Sure, that's one of the reasons why HIllary is such a cunt.

I wasn't talking about Hilary.

I was. This is the "Thread of Democrats." You bringing up Trump is just trying to sidestep the issues.

Liar, YOU brought up Trump, not me.
I was responding to:

Yeah but Trump's... oh, yeah, there isn't any evidence that he did anything wrong.

I don't recall admitting that Trump lied to the American people.

It is on public record that he did whether you admit it or not.

"Mexico will pay for it"
http://fortune.com/2018/12/13/trump-mexico-border-wall/

[Forty Two]

Fuck off with the "liar" bullshit. When I typed that, I was responding to Tero's post about HIllary's email. The point is that he keeps saying "yebutt Hillary's emails..." to poo-poo the importance or relevance of it. I was responding that there is less evidence of any wrongdoing by Trump than there is by Clinton, and Clinton lied about her emails and committed offenses by mishandling confidential information.

Also, if you think a broken promise is a lie, then there is no politician who has not committed that exact "wrongdoing."

Your problem is you consider anything Trump says which you take issue with, every promise which has not yet been fulfilled, and every promise that he fails to achieve is a "lie." Yet, you hold no politician you support to that same standard. You don't even care. And, there are many ways Mexico "pays for the wall," And, promises of future performance are not lies, unless they are made with the present intent not to perform those promises. So, when , say Obama says that the average person will save $2,500 on their health insurance and "if you like your doctor you'll be able to keep your doctor" he may have failed to fulfill those promises, but unless he made those promises with intent to deceive, he wasn't lying when he made them. Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay, too. Did he "lie?" Or did have the intent to do so, but was unable to achieve it?

That's not "tu quoque" incidentally - before you deflect by going that route - it's citing an example of promises of future performance.

So, we need to distinguish, I think, between unfulfilled promises, and failures of policy, with intentional falsehoods. Saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewisnsky" is a "lie" when it's made with the knowledge that the statement is false. He also made false statements of fact (knowing they were false when made) in his deposition in the case of Paula Jones v. Clinton, and those were under oath. Those are "lies" because the are intentionally false statements of fact.

Obama promising to close Guantanamo Bay and yet leaving it open is not a demonstrable lie, and neither is Trump's claim that he would build a wall in the future and make Mexico pay for it.

[Tero]

Yeahbut Hillary’s secret server in her basement.

[Svartalf]

Well, she's a high flying politico, of course she needs somewhere secret to keep har archives.

[Forty Two]

Yeahbut Hillary’s secret server in her basement.

.... did she lie about it, or just misspeak?