The Thread of Democrats

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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Tero » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:44 am

Er...he is 42% popular. A very low number in a first term.

I have no need for Trump analysis or how many like or hate him. I only need some minimal analysis on Trump voters (now and 2016) who are not registered Republicans.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Cunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:59 am

It's a pretty good set of numbers, and to hear some talk about it, no-one likes him.

I would have always identified with the democrats, test politically left, and would absolutely not have supported Clinton. I would have voted Trump.

Many did, because the Dems have gone nuts, and the moderates among them don't know how to make them come to heel.

So they have no team now. I would like to say that they'll find a strong leader and give a good run, but they can't.

I seriously think they could if they ended up getting Crenshaw. Reaching across the aisle will be the only novel step they can take, to show they value the country over taking sides.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:15 am

Who is paying the counters? It is almost impossible to get good data out of the USA. The most disorganised first world country. It has not got a clue about itself. It depends on surveys and guestimates to create data of no use. If Trump wants data he buys it making sure it suits his needs. The NRA for instance produces its own data about guns!
If there was a standard method of recording data but every state or even county does it a different way.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:16 am

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:59 am
It's a pretty good set of numbers, and to hear some talk about it, no-one likes him.

I would have always identified with the democrats, test politically left, and would absolutely not have supported Clinton. I would have voted Trump.
If you are of the left, why would you vote for a right winger (and an utterly incompetent one at that)? :think: Why not vote for one of the other left candidates?
Many did, because the Dems have gone nuts, and the moderates among them don't know how to make them come to heel.
Clinton was a "moderate" Dem. In one sentence you say you wouldn't vote for her, but in the other you lament that the likes of her are losing some control of the party.
I seriously think they could if they ended up getting Crenshaw. Reaching across the aisle will be the only novel step they can take, to show they value the country over taking sides.
You can't (and shouldn't) reach across the isle to far right nutjobs (which most of the Republicans are). Doing that just winds up in the left losing more ground to the right like they have for the last 40 years.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:23 am

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:25 am
(consider how many of them think Trump is unpopular, compared to how popular he is)

The democrats are leading with their weakest characters. It's brilliant strategy, or the opposite. I guess time will tell whether it was a good idea to rally behind the squad.
I think you're right. The democrats don't really want to win because, like most political parities, they have no cogent response to the abject failure of Capitalism to deliver on it's promises. At least the Republicans have decided to align themselves full-square behind Capitalism and to run with slogans that pin the blame on everyone and anyone at the the bottom of the pile, while simultaneously campaigning from the position that the only way to fix the abject failure of Capitalism is "MOAR CAPITALISM, HARDER CAPITALISM, NOW!" That electors think this is a good idea is not only a credit to their PR but a testament to the power and influence which Capitalism now wields on its own behalf through the co-opting of democratic processes and institutions.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:35 am

I don't think the Dems give much of a fuck about capitalism. Like most professional politicians they want to rule for ruling's sake. And/or extract the maximum wealth out of the burning mess that is the dumpster fire of capitalism.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:40 am

I will say that I think there are plenty of Dems who truly believe in trickle-down. But what they mistake as trickle-down is actually debt driven "prosperity". Whether it's a genuine mistake, or wilful ignorance, is the question.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:05 am

In a political-electoral system that is run on, and can only be successfully run on, private donations everyone eventually ends up on Capitalism's team.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 am

There are ideologues on the Democratic side--they aren't all avaricious apparatchiks. As with ideologues on the right, they allow themselves to get carried away.

'Move to erase George Washington mural sparks firestorm among Dems'
A San Francisco school board decision to spend $600,000 to paint over a New Deal-era mural of George Washington as a slave owner is fueling a family feud among Democrats — with a growing chorus protesting that the controversial move may hand Donald Trump potent ammunition in his re-election bid.

“I think of myself as liberal, progressive, and have been all my life — but I’m just sort of stunned by this,’’ veteran Democratic strategist Bob Shrum said Sunday. “We have a little more important things to do — like defeating Donald Trump — than to whitewash a mural.”

Shrum, who today directs the Center for the Political Future and Unruh Institute of Politics at USC, set off a round of heated social media commentary Sunday when he tweeted: “I am a progressive Democrat, but this is nuts. Just because others are nuts, doesn’t mean we have to be.”

The San Francisco Board of Education voted unanimously last month to paint over all 13 panels of the 1600 sq. ft. mural “Life of Washington,’’ a historic work commissioned during the New Deal that depicts George Washington as a slave owner. The move came after several vocal protesters demanded the move at a public meeting, saying their children were “traumatized” by depictions of the nation’s first president standing over the images of dead Native Americans.
The Democratic party is at least able to discuss issues like this, while Republicans have cravenly fallen into lockstep with the regressive white nationalism and plutocratic corporatism of Trump--dissenters in the Republican party aren't welcome. They know this, and after some ineffective yelps of protest they generally just leave the party.

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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Cunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:43 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:16 am
Cunt wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:59 am
It's a pretty good set of numbers, and to hear some talk about it, no-one likes him.

I would have always identified with the democrats, test politically left, and would absolutely not have supported Clinton. I would have voted Trump.
If you are of the left, why would you vote for a right winger (and an utterly incompetent one at that)? :think: Why not vote for one of the other left candidates?
Bernie might have gotten my support, but he let Hillary fuck him out of the primary. I think he just accepted it, too.

So who was on the left to vote for? Oh, right, the lifelong politician who everyone hated - Hillary the Evil.
Many did, because the Dems have gone nuts, and the moderates among them don't know how to make them come to heel.
Clinton was a "moderate" Dem. In one sentence you say you wouldn't vote for her, but in the other you lament that the likes of her are losing some control of the party.
I seriously think they could if they ended up getting Crenshaw. Reaching across the aisle will be the only novel step they can take, to show they value the country over taking sides.
You can't (and shouldn't) reach across the isle to far right nutjobs (which most of the Republicans are). Doing that just winds up in the left losing more ground to the right like they have for the last 40 years.
The dems have rallied around the squad. It's all about open borders or some shit.

They haven't convinced me that they even have a position, beyond 'Trump is doing great, and we want to impeach him anyway'.

Why should their spite and stupidity be convincing? The green new deal?

I've got an election coming that REALLY counts, in Canada. So far, the left is just as nuts here, except that ALL the parties are on the left here.
Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:23 am
I think you're right. The democrats don't really want to win because, like most political parities, they have no cogent response to the abject failure of Capitalism to deliver on it's promises. At least the Republicans have decided to align themselves full-square behind Capitalism and to run with slogans that pin the blame on everyone and anyone at the the bottom of the pile, while simultaneously campaigning from the position that the only way to fix the abject failure of Capitalism is "MOAR CAPITALISM, HARDER CAPITALISM, NOW!" That electors think this is a good idea is not only a credit to their PR but a testament to the power and influence which Capitalism now wields on its own behalf through the co-opting of democratic processes and institutions.
Capitalism seems to have yielded the most wealthy successful populations. It's important to have a VERY successful capitalism so that we can afford some socialism.
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by JimC » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:19 pm

Few here would take convincing that a good part of Trump's electoral win was that Hillary was on the nose with too many Americans; you'll find few Clinton supporters here...

Although most of your posts suggest you think we are...
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Cunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Why not try to enjoy the best of her opponent then? I've only seen ire for him, from you. He is a lot lefter than we could have had (in a Republican President, I mean)
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Hermit aka Seraph wrote:
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placed himself within a swinging arm's distance from said antifas

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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by JimC » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:36 pm

He only deserves ire. That doesn't mean that his Democrat opponents don't deserve some either...

(I may have got my negatives muddled up there... ;) )
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by Cunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:42 pm

JimC wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:36 pm
He only deserves ire. That doesn't mean that his Democrat opponents don't deserve some either...

(I may have got my negatives muddled up there... ;) )
So you don't like that he deports less people than Obama?

Look, it's silly to blame half the shit-show on him, just like it's silly to credit him with it. One of the things I like best about him, is the way he shits all over political correctness. If you don't think it has gone too far, maybe you would be right to only hate it, but honestly, when the media freaks out because he tweeted a outrage, it is almost like someone here complaining to a moderator that 'Cunt said a bad language word'.

He's there because he's saying things others wouldn't. The insults bounce off because it is a game most people don't see as fair.
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Hermit aka Seraph wrote:
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Re: The Thread of Democrats

Post by JimC » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:02 pm

Cunt wrote:

...He's there because he's saying things others wouldn't...
They wouldn't say the things he says because they have at least a shred of human decency?
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