Confederate Flag to Fly at City Hill in Belleview, Florida

[Brian Peacock]

Do you disavow the charge that the Confederate flag has a certain and particular association with Southern far-right and white- supremacist groups 42?

Do I deny support for the charge that the confederate flag has an association with southern far right and white supremacist groups? I don't think that's a coherent question. But, if what you mean is, do I deny the charge that the confederate flag is used by southern far right and white supremacist groups? Of course not. Some racists like to waive that flag. So? Some racists wrap themselves in the American flag. They can't have that one to themselves either, IMO.

Do yoy think the conferderate flag holds a particular significance for those groups, or just that their association with the flag isn't particularly significant?

Yes, depending on which group you're talking about.

I think it is pretty clear which groups we're talking about.

Do you deny that the third flag of the confederacy holds significance, historical or otherwise, to some people which is apart from slavery?

A little, for some - although I believe the issue pertains to the Second Confederate flag, or Navy Jack or Battle Flag of the Southern States as noted here.

Of course, some may view it in entirely dispassionately historical terms - but that some may does nothing to dilute it's broader significance as the emblem of those who went to war to retain and expand a political, economic and social system predicated on the ownership of individuals as property and on the lawful exploitation of those individual as a private economic resource.

[L'Emmerdeur]

Look - the Mongolians have statues of Genghis Khan as a revered symbol of their history. He was one of the worst murderers and tyrants in history - a rapist, a slaver, a despot. Yet, as a symbol of Mongolian history - good, bad, ugly - he's part of it. Do they honor his rapine, slaughter, invasion, conquest, enslavement, pillaging, theft and despotism? Not generally those aspects. They honor the history.

What you say about Genghis Khan is accurate, but in your attempt to salvage your position you're missing some relevant distinctions here. Give or take a few decades, Genghis Khan's reign was 800 years ago. While certain countries in the Middle East might conceivably resent the fact that a country thousands of miles away continues to revere him, they don't have their noses rubbed in it every day. On the other hand the Confederacy and its fight to keep slavery alive are much more recent, and still directly affect the culture of the United States. The descendants of those slaves are still living in the US, and many of them live in the parts of the country where some insist on celebrating the Confederacy.

Given the history associated with Genghis Khan we might say that Muslims have the most cause to resent him being celebrated. However, many of his most powerful descendants converted to Islam, so it seems that even the few Mongolian Muslims can easily reconcile themselves to the fact that his image is a part of Mongolian culture, especially given the fact that they probably have no ancestors who were among his victims.

Then there's the fact that the Confederate flag has been and continues to be used by racist groups (some with relatively recent histories of violence against black people) as a symbol of their ideologies. Maybe you can tell me how many Mongolians have been rallying around the image of Genghis Khan while espousing a despicable ideology and engaging in violent behavior against descendants of his victims. I'm not aware of any.

I think your attempt to use Genghis Khan to support your position is absurd, but maybe that's just me.

The Hammer and Sickle still can be seen in Russia, like during Victory Day Parades. That hammer and sickle represents enslavement of an entire nation of people under totalitarian communism, and the slaughter of 10s of millions.

I would not be surprised if there are Russians and people of other nationalities living in Russia who would object to the continued celebration of the flag of the USSR if it were not for the fact that they live under a dictatorship and could suffer dire consequences if they made it an issue. Fortunately, the US is not a dictatorship, and people can still express their opinions on an issue like this.

Hermit has also addressed your post and dissected its failure, so I'm not going to waste any more time on it, but I didn't want to just ignore it.

[Brian Peacock]

It seems to me that the legacy of slavery is still a very tender issue, and one never far from the surface of the American cultural experience.

[pErvinalia]

Coarsely ground cornmeal, usually from hominy, which is corn slaked in lime to remove the hull. It's boiled and served with butter, salt and pepper, though some barbarians put milk and sugar on them and eat it like breakfast cereal. Those people should be shipped down to y'all for crimes against humanity.

So is it anything like Pap? That's made from cornmeal, I think. Sounds better than pap, anyway.

[Scot Dutchy]

Fortunately, the US is not a dictatorship, and people can still express their opinions on an issue like this.

Just give Trump time.

[Forty Two]

Yes, depending on which group you're talking about.

I think it is pretty clear which groups we're talking about.

You might think so, but name them. We can then see exactly what significance those groups have.

Do you deny that the third flag of the confederacy holds significance, historical or otherwise, to some people which is apart from slavery?

A little, for some - although I believe the issue pertains to the Second Confederate flag, or Navy Jack or Battle Flag of the Southern States as noted here.

No, the articles linked note that Belleview FL wanted to fly the third flag.

Of course, some may view it in entirely dispassionately historical terms - but that some may does nothing to dilute it's broader significance as the emblem of those who went to war to retain and expand a political, economic and social system predicated on the ownership of individuals as property and on the lawful exploitation of those individual as a private economic resource.

By the same token, that some may view the flag like they view the swastika does not dilute its broader significance to those who don't view it that way.

And,historically, emblems of exploitation are quite common. the English flag was an emblem that went to war to retain and expand a political, economic and social system predicated on the ownership of individuals as property and on the lawful exploitation of those individuals as a public and private economic resource. Note, the English flag symbol goes back to the Crusades, flew over feudalism, an aristocratic system which held the commoners in serfdom. The symbol of St. George's cross was used by Crusaders. Even today, the symbology associated with the British monarchy is the symbology of a class system of aristocrats, lords, ladies, kings, queens and commoners, harkening back to centuries of oppression, murder, theft, and war to press the rights of those aristocrats, seize lands, rule "subjects" etc. It harkens back to colonialism, where essentially a small island conquered 1/4 of the globe, and cheered itself on while doing it - oppression, tyranny, murder, theft and conquest. Is that not what the Union Jack and the English Flag stands for?

The current flag of Brazil flew over slavery. Are we to believe that it flew over slavery despite general opposition of the people and the government to that institution?

[Forty Two]

It was mostly about chicken fried steak. Yankees claimed that "chicken fried steak" was a stupid name because there's actually no chicken in it. They also claimed milk gravy wasn't actually gravy. This was an intolerable insult to the Southern Way of LIfe and we responded as any civilized person would, by shooting cannons at their asses to reclaim our honor.

They also said okra was slimy and not fit for human consumption, and that grits were tasteless. What would you have us do?

The War was fought over barbecue. The northerners tried to force the South to consider grilling to be a form of barbecuing. The south then adopted its well-known slogan, "This aggression will not stand, man."

[laklak]

So is it anything like Pap? That's made from cornmeal, I think. Sounds better than pap, anyway.

Pretty much the same thing, though pap is usually whole kernel dried corn. Grits are soaked in an alkaline solution to remove the husk and kill the germ (prevents it sprouting in storage).

[Scot Dutchy]

Pap is very popular here. I dont know if it is the same being but it is sold in packets and is made from whole wheat:

[laklak]

Only pap I know is what Rainbow eats with missionaries, it's made from corn meal. Most African countries have an equivalent. I like mine with boeries and chakalala



Fuck I'm hungry.

[Feck]

Nothing made with corn tastes good . Even if you feed it to chickens they turn bright fucking yellow ! Corn flower is the last resort of a bad chef .
There is use for corn ....
https://www.thebalance.com/corn-starch- ... ng-2221071

[Feck]

"which is corn slaked in lime to remove the hull"
Obviously NOT FOOD !

[pErvinalia]

Corn on the cob tastes fucking awesome.

[Feck]

[laklak]

Yeah baby! Mexican grilled corn with chili, crema and lime juice, that's how I fucking roll. There will be grilled corn tonight, smoked beef brisket, lima beans, plenteous beer, and to top it off, double chocolate fudge brownies with pistachio ice cream.