The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:57 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:Haha, as soon as I saw this one Forty Two, I knew you'd be all over it.

FWIW, I completely agree with your disgust.
It's a bit alarming. A graduate student TA is presenting a newsworthy, current debate in a class appropriate for that topic. The discussion centers around the use of pronouns, and she uses a video by a current professor at the University of Toronto, who has published on the topic and is an outspoken and well-known voice about the issue, whose views were presented publicly before Parliament, and she presented the issue in a neutral fashion. That, according to these meathead SJWs who are in the position of power within the institution to hear and investigate anonymous and undisclosed charges pursuant to which they will take action against professors they deem to breach vague and politically charged rules, is "the problem" and is like presenting a speech by Hitler without moralizing against it.

I take issue with the comparison there -- I think there is no problem with neutrally presenting speeches by Adolph Hitler. It's done all the time. He has a point of view. If I were taking a course involving Nazism, and we were reading Mein Kampf and the professor started wasting time telling me what I was supposed to think and feel about the verbiage used, I'd be pretty pissed off. And, that's what these numbskulls doing the interview are saying - you can present certain views to the class, but you had better tell everyone how horrible and immoral those views are, or it's hate speech.

I say to them: Go. Fuck. Your. Selves.

My one regret is that they picked on this poor lady who didn't have a stomach for a fight with them. Being accused of being transphobic and all that nonsense was too much for her, and she was sobbing on and off throughout the audio. She was greatly disturbed and hurt by their treatment of her. Of course, they don't care about her offense or feelings. She neutrally presented an issue of pronoun usage, and that equals Hitler. Calling her a transphobe and comparing to someone who spreads Nazi propaganda, that's just fine with them. They're punching up, or so they think.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:The SJW Progressive mob
Stop equating SJWs and Progressives. They aren't the same thing.
Give me your definitions, and I'll decide if I agree with you.


I already did that a year ago and you didn't respond. It's pointless trying to debate with you.
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm not debating with you. You're the one who asked me to stop equating SJWs and Progressives. If you don't define your terms, I can't respond. I don't care or remember anything you say you told me a year ago. Defining your terms would take a minute or two. Do it or don't. If you don't, then don't expect me to "stop equating" them, and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Strontium Dog » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:27 pm

Forty Two wrote:...and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:50 am

Forty Two wrote:I'm not debating with you. You're the one who asked me to stop equating SJWs and Progressives. If you don't define your terms, I can't respond. I don't care or remember anything you say you told me a year ago. Defining your terms would take a minute or two. Do it or don't. If you don't, then don't expect me to "stop equating" them,
I've long ago stopped expecting you to do anything rational. I posted pages of authoritative definitions and descriptions of what progressivism is, and you did your usual trick of buggering off when you are confronted with an inconvenient truth.
and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Of course you did. The stuff you post about emanates from SJWs. And while SJWs are probably broadly progressive, it's wrong to label this sort of stuff as progressive thought. The vast majority of progressives don't support these extreme views.
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:55 am

Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:...and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
It's equating both of them to the same belief on the issues that 42 posts about. And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought. SJWs are a radical outlier of progressivism. It would be like me saying "the moderate right and the white-nationalist" believe the same thing. Or as a direct paraphrase of the comment I was responding to - "the white-nationalist moderate right mob". It's utterly ridiculous.
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:34 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:I'm not debating with you. You're the one who asked me to stop equating SJWs and Progressives. If you don't define your terms, I can't respond. I don't care or remember anything you say you told me a year ago. Defining your terms would take a minute or two. Do it or don't. If you don't, then don't expect me to "stop equating" them,
I've long ago stopped expecting you to do anything rational. I posted pages of authoritative definitions and descriptions of what progressivism is, and you did your usual trick of buggering off when you are confronted with an inconvenient truth.
Look - I did not equate them. Plain and simple.

I am not debating you on what Progressivism is. I merely invited you, if you so desired, to present your definition of Progressivism, and then I can tell you how I did not equate SJW with Progressive - because, well, they aren't identical and I never said they were.

You refuse to accept that, which is up to you. But, don't expect me to wade through a years worth of your dopey posts in order to find whatever needle in a haystack you want me to find. I don't care. It's not what's being discussed here, except by you. I did not equate the terms. I do not believe they are equal.
pErvinalia wrote:
and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Of course you did. The stuff you post about emanates from SJWs. And while SJWs are probably broadly progressive, it's wrong to label this sort of stuff as progressive thought. The vast majority of progressives don't support these extreme views.
Of course I did not. Yes, the stuff I posted emanates from SJW Progressives. We were talking about the Wilfred-Laurier folks - the folks that interrogated the TA who presented the Jordan Peterson video. Those folks, I believe, are SJWs, and I believe they would identify as Progressives. As you said, SJWs are broadly progressive.

I never said the vast majority of progressives support those views. That doesn't make them not Progressive views. They aren't conservative, liberal, libertarian, or moderate views, that's for sure. The ones that hold them are Progressive. You can go ahead and let me know which views are held by the "vast majority" of Progressives and which ones are held by the less-than-vast majority, and which ones are held by some plurality or minority of Progressives. Cite your sources, too.

Until then, who gives a shit what you think the "vast majority" of Progressives believe? It wasn't relevant to the discussion, nor does it rebut or take away from what I actually said, which was to the effect that the Wilfred-Laurier incident was emblematic of the SJW Progressive Left Mob.

You're just derailing again. This has nothing to do with anything. Again, I've not made any claim to what the vast majority of anybody believes. You did. you have, conspicuously, failed to back up your claim, but since I'm not taking a position in that argument, I really don't care. You can present your evidence if you want, and it might pique my interest. Doubtful, but maybe. But until then, your cool story is cool story, bro.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:41 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:...and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
It's equating both of them to the same belief on the issues that 42 posts about. And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought. SJWs are a radical outlier of progressivism. It would be like me saying "the moderate right and the white-nationalist" believe the same thing. Or as a direct paraphrase of the comment I was responding to - "the white-nationalist moderate right mob". It's utterly ridiculous.

It's hyperbole to consider this stuff as progressive thought.

In the very next sentence you say that SJWs are an outlier of progressivism.

So, it's not hyperbole. You just said that it is progressive thought, albeit an outlier.

Thus, you admit that it is progressive thought, you just suggest that it's radical progressivism, and not whatever you think is mainstream progressivism.

No, it would not in the least be like you saying "the nmoderate right and white nationalists" believe the same thing. Because that's not what I said at all. I did not say "SJWs and Progressives" believe the same thing. So, what I said is not at all like what you suggest.

What would be comparable is you said the "Christian religious right wing mob." The right wing is not the same thing as Christian, but there is a Christian right wing mob which holds right wing views, albeit rather extreme.

Your argument is utterly ridiculous, not mine. You just make up an inapplicable analogy and try to misattribute it to me and pretend that what i did was say the SJWs believe the same thing as all Progressives. I never said that. I never implied it.

What I am doing is, as is my fault, allowing you to derail the conversation about Wilfred-Laurier and make it about what you think I "equated" and your dopey declarations about what you think the "vast majority" of this group or that group actually believes (which conveniently corresponds to the views you hold... lol).
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:47 pm

O.k. back to Wilfred-Laurier --

Pervin - are the views expressed by the interrogators of the TA in the Wilfred-Laurier case, in your view, Progressive? Are they extreme progressive? Radical progressive? Outlier progressive?

If not, what are the views that it is injurious and unsafe to present, in a neutral fashion, the views of Jordan Peterson, by showing a prime-time serious broadcast debate in class? Where does that view fall on the political spectrum?

Do you agree with the views of the professors/administrators who were saying things like that?

What, specifically, did you take issue with, if anything?

If you aren't interested, or didn't listen to the audio, and don't want to get into the specifics, fine. But, I'm just inviting you to participate in a civil discussion about the topic.

If you don't want to, fine. If you're going to go into how it's not "worth" discussing it with me, or how you can't be arsed or some other iteration, that's fine too - I don't care.

If you agree with me about the views expressed in the audio by the administrators interrogating the TA, then that's fine too. Then we have not much to debate, although everyone's views on that topic could, conceivably, be of some value.

....attack on my person/veracity/intent/motive coming in 3....2....1.....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:58 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:...and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
It's equating both of them to the same belief on the issues that 42 posts about. And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought. SJWs are a radical outlier of progressivism. It would be like me saying "the moderate right and the white-nationalist" believe the same thing. Or as a direct paraphrase of the comment I was responding to - "the white-nationalist moderate right mob". It's utterly ridiculous.

It's hyperbole to consider this stuff as progressive thought.

In the very next sentence you say that SJWs are an outlier of progressivism.
Yes, outlier. You rhetorically pair them together as if they share commonality.
So, it's not hyperbole. You just said that it is progressive thought, albeit an outlier.

Thus, you admit that it is progressive thought, you just suggest that it's radical progressivism, and not whatever you think is mainstream progressivism.
Yes, 42, black is white.. :bored:
No, it would not in the least be like you saying "the nmoderate right and white nationalists" believe the same thing. Because that's not what I said at all. I did not say "SJWs and Progressives" believe the same thing.
Yes, right, 42, of course. When you said "The SJW Progressive mob thinks that it is...", you really meant the SJWs think one thing and the Progressives think another. :roll:
What would be comparable is you said the "Christian religious right wing mob." The right wing is not the same thing as Christian, but there is a Christian right wing mob which holds right wing views, albeit rather extreme.
This is ridiculous. The vast majority of the right wing are practising christians. The vast majority the progressive left do not subscribe to this fringe SJW stuff you go on about.
Your argument is utterly ridiculous, not mine. You just make up an inapplicable analogy and try to misattribute it to me and pretend that what i did was say the SJWs believe the same thing as all Progressives. I never said that.
I never said you said it. God you are a bullshitter.
What I am doing is, as is my fault, allowing you to derail the conversation about Wilfred-Laurier and make it about what you think I "equated" and your dopey declarations about what you think the "vast majority" of this group or that group actually believes (which conveniently corresponds to the views you hold... lol).
Again, I have zero interest in derailing anything. What I do have an interest in is calling out bullshit when I see it. You really sound as though you need a safe space. You just can't accept the case where you get vigorously challenged on the shit you spout. Ironic given the amount you carry on about safe-spaces etc..
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:27 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:...and of course I did not equate them in the first place.
Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
It's equating both of them to the same belief on the issues that 42 posts about. And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought. SJWs are a radical outlier of progressivism. It would be like me saying "the moderate right and the white-nationalist" believe the same thing. Or as a direct paraphrase of the comment I was responding to - "the white-nationalist moderate right mob". It's utterly ridiculous.

It's hyperbole to consider this stuff as progressive thought.

In the very next sentence you say that SJWs are an outlier of progressivism.
Yes, outlier. You rhetorically pair them together as if they share commonality.
They do have a commonality. You identified it yourself. They are both progressive. Your alleged distinction is that one is a radical outlier progressive and progressive would include all progressives of whatever stripe. Thus, by your own statement, SJWs are either a subset or an overlapping set of progressives.

Image or Image
pErvinalia wrote:
So, it's not hyperbole. You just said that it is progressive thought, albeit an outlier.

Thus, you admit that it is progressive thought, you just suggest that it's radical progressivism, and not whatever you think is mainstream progressivism.
Yes, 42, black is white.. :bored:
How so? You SAID SJWs were progressive.
pErvinalia wrote:
No, it would not in the least be like you saying "the nmoderate right and white nationalists" believe the same thing. Because that's not what I said at all. I did not say "SJWs and Progressives" believe the same thing.
Yes, right, 42, of course. When you said "The SJW Progressive mob thinks that it is...", you really meant the SJWs think one thing and the Progressives think another. :roll:
I was referring tot he SJW Progressive mob, and not every Progressive. The non-sjws are excluded from my statement. Well, for everyone listening except you. You know what I "really" mean.

Something is seriously wrong with you.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:52 am

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote: Indeed, you wrote "the Progressive Left and the SJW mob" in the first instance. To use rEv's logic, saying "fish and chips" is equating fish with chips. No it isn't, it is merely associating them.
It's equating both of them to the same belief on the issues that 42 posts about. And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought. SJWs are a radical outlier of progressivism. It would be like me saying "the moderate right and the white-nationalist" believe the same thing. Or as a direct paraphrase of the comment I was responding to - "the white-nationalist moderate right mob". It's utterly ridiculous.

It's hyperbole to consider this stuff as progressive thought.

In the very next sentence you say that SJWs are an outlier of progressivism.
Yes, outlier. You rhetorically pair them together as if they share commonality.
They do have a commonality. You identified it yourself. They are both progressive. Your alleged distinction is that one is a radical outlier progressive and progressive would include all progressives of whatever stripe. Thus, by your own statement, SJWs are either a subset or an overlapping set of progressives.

Image or Image
Notice in the diagram on the left how there's a large chunk of whichever one you want to identify as the progressive set that doesn't include the regressive set? :bored:
pErvinalia wrote:
So, it's not hyperbole. You just said that it is progressive thought, albeit an outlier.

Thus, you admit that it is progressive thought, you just suggest that it's radical progressivism, and not whatever you think is mainstream progressivism.
Yes, 42, black is white.. :bored:
How so? You SAID SJWs were progressive.
Here's what I said about what SJWs believe "And it's utter hyperbole to consider this sort of stuff as progressive thought.". What's really ironic here is that you are adopting my 'intersecting set' classification, yet you can't see how it makes the distinction between how you characterise what I said and what I actually said. Look at that diagram again. See the bit of the 'sjw' set that doesn't intersect with the progressive set? Do you need me to explain how my statement I quoted above applies to that part?
pErvinalia wrote:
No, it would not in the least be like you saying "the nmoderate right and white nationalists" believe the same thing. Because that's not what I said at all. I did not say "SJWs and Progressives" believe the same thing.
Yes, right, 42, of course. When you said "The SJW Progressive mob thinks that it is...", you really meant the SJWs think one thing and the Progressives think another. :roll:
I was referring tot he SJW Progressive mob, and not every Progressive. The non-sjws are excluded from my statement. Well, for everyone listening except you. You know what I "really" mean.
Bullshit. Refer to own diagram again. See the bit that doesn't intersect? That's the nutty SJW stuff. There's no progressivism in that subset.
Something is seriously wrong with you.
Man, I've never met any one with so little self-awareness as you.. :lol:
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:43 am

Forty Two wrote:The right wing is not the same thing as Christian, but there is a Christian right wing mob which holds right wing views, albeit rather extreme.
pErvinalia wrote:The vast majority of the right wing are practising christians. The vast majority the progressive left do not subscribe to this fringe SJW stuff you go on about.
Firstly. I note you snuck in the word "practising". Cheap trick, aka erecting a strawman. It won't wash. Secondly, Although most of the right wing in the US subscribe to Christianity - if not in deed, at least in word - it cannot be said that most Christians are right-wingers. You are doing what you accuse 42 of doing: equating a sub-section with the whole. The vast majority of Christians are no more right wingers than the vast majority of left wingers are social justice warriors.
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:35 am

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:The right wing is not the same thing as Christian, but there is a Christian right wing mob which holds right wing views, albeit rather extreme.
pErvinalia wrote:The vast majority of the right wing are practising christians. The vast majority the progressive left do not subscribe to this fringe SJW stuff you go on about.
Firstly. I note you snuck in the word "practising". Cheap trick, aka erecting a strawman.
It's nothing of the sort. His analogy was inaccurate. I was adapting it to be comparable to the relationship between progressives and the SJWs. Being "christian" without practising is as much about cultural inertia than actively engaging as a christian. But progressives actively engage as progressives every time they vote.
It won't wash. Secondly, Although most of the right wing in the US subscribe to Christianity - if not in deed, at least in word - it cannot be said that most Christians are right-wingers. You are doing what you accuse 42 of doing: equating a sub-section with the whole.
You need to upgrade your reading-comprehension module. I never said "most Christians are right-wingers". I explicitly said the reverse (that right wingers are mostly christians).
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Re: The thread of Campus Crazy Hijinks

Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:58 am

pErvinalia wrote:I never said "most Christians are right-wingers". I explicitly said the reverse (that right wingers are mostly christians).
Yes. I replied that "the vast majority of Christians are no more right wingers than the vast majority of left wingers are social justice warriors". Your insertion of the word "practising" is a classic case of erecting a strawman and "The vast majority of the right wing are practising christians. The vast majority the progressive left do not subscribe to this fringe SJW stuff" is a false equivalence in that light.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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