Nebraska to resist pipeline route

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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Forty Two » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:11 pm

Pipelines are safer than road or rail - https://cdn.flipsnack.com/iframehtml5/e ... s=1&v=5.33

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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:08 pm

Only if you let rail out of control. Design better tank cars.

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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by mistermack » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Tero wrote:Only if you let rail out of control. Design better tank cars.
But you have to compare upgraded rail to upgraded pipe, and then pipe still comes out ahead.

Trains seem wasteful. They have to do the return trip, going back the same route empty.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:31 am

The Nebraska passed the pipe permit but not with the route Transcanada requested. "Submit new route please."
The dotted line is not going to go there. across the major aquifer. it can go on the S Dakota part to the right over to the yellow line and follow it for the NE part. I suggest they put it right thru the capitol Pierre.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:44 am

The new route follows the brown route about half the length of NE (the Southern half of that picture). New landowners in the segment with no current pipe have not been consulted so a new review process will take place.
Parties have 30 days to file an appeal in Nebraska, said Bold Alliance, an environmental advocacy group opposing the project, in a statement. They may also petition the PSC for a rehearing within 10 days of the decision.

The State Department is reviewing the extent of the Nebraska route changes with an eye toward potential impacts to its March 24 presidential permit authorizing the construction of pipeline facilities at the U.S.-Canadian border in Montana. In an emailed statement, the State Department called the Nebraska Public Service Commission’s decision "another step in this process" of authorizing Keystone XL.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:48 am

Forty Two wrote:Pipelines are safer than road or rail - https://cdn.flipsnack.com/iframehtml5/e ... s=1&v=5.33
That actually only applies to crude oil pipe. The 6 inch pipe in the above map is that kind, has opertated safely for years. These are 18 inch or more pipes of TAR SANDS oil under pressure. The oil will solidify unless you pass steam thru as well. That is why they rip open as in Kalamazoo.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:47 am

Was there a hullabaloo in Kalamazoo?
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:45 pm

Mostly spill is still a spill:
The company said 24,450 gallons of oil had been recovered as of Wednesday. TransCanada's Keystone pipeline leaked an estimated 210,000 gallons of oil on agricultural land in Marshall County, South Dakota.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by mistermack » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:22 pm

Everyone pays more, if the pipelines are fucked.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKBN1DM04O
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:02 pm

The article is misleading. Tar sands oil is unnecessary. i don't need it to drive my car. It goes to shipping by boat. The green bars are the necessary oil. Make up the rest from other sources.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by mistermack » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:09 am

It's all supply and demand. Cut the demand in the US by taxing it more, and there would be a surplus on the market leading to a drop in oil prices.

Keep demand high, and prices high, and it will keep these lower grade deposits economically viable.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:20 pm

You don’t get it. This is not oil. It’s tar sands. A liquid form of coal.

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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:55 pm

It's energy value is low. But unlike coal it is still quite flammable due to added pentane:
A Canadian National Railways train carrying diluted bitumen (dilbit) from the tar sands in Alberta derailed in northern Ontario, with 29 of the 100 cars involved in the accident. Seven caught fire, spilling some 6,000 barrels of oil. Such was the intensity of the fire that it burnt for six days.

Therefore, the tar sands crude that arrives there has been diluted with pentane or natural gasoline, a very light hydrocarbon similar to that which is found to be so explosive in the Bakken crude, to enable it to flow in the pipelines. The dilbit is typically 72% bitumen and 28% diluent.

While it is possible to load undiluted bitumen onto a tank car using steam and heated tank cars to make the sticky bitumen flow, the reality is that this is only happening at a handful of small terminals located close to tar sands production in Northern Alberta. But these terminals do not have the capacity to load multiple unit trains (trains of over 100 cars carrying one commodity from A to B) every day.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by mistermack » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:57 pm

Sounds like it would be a problem to unload, if that's the case.
Anyway, my linked article was saying that whatever it's qualities, the temporary shortage forced the prices up, so someone must be finding a use for it.

I've been reading lately that there is an imminent development lurking in battery technology, which could make electric vehicles far more practical. ( solid state battery technology using graphene, if I remember rightly. )
That could have a major effect on the oil industry in the long term, switching the demand from IC engine fuel to electric generating fuel. It could also have a major effect on the wind turbine industry.
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Re: Nebraska to resist pipeline route

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:20 pm

It is used in big engines that are on ocean going ships. That leaves more regular diesel for trucks on the road.

I have a blog entry on the tar sands now.
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/2017/11 ... at-is.html
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