The US Healthcare Mass Debate

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:40 pm

Not denying its size Joe but having no standard definitions which should apply to the whole country does make it very difficult.
Am I wrong but do Americans feel more loyal to their state than the country as a whole?
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Joe » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:40 pm
Not denying its size Joe but having no standard definitions which should apply to the whole country does make it very difficult.
Am I wrong but do Americans feel more loyal to their state than the country as a whole?
I'm sure some do Scot, but to me the problems the Feds have imposing standards have more to do with federalism than state loyalty. While the defiance of federal drug laws on marijuana gets the most attention, the states impose their own interpretation of federally mandated standards, and usually can make them stick.

A good case in point is the ANSI X12 standard health care transaction set that federal law mandates for HIPAA compliant electronic data interchange. Many states have "companion guides" that amend the standard for their purposes. I've even seen the standard vary significantly between departments with in the state government. It's terribly inefficient, and prone to error, but it's just an accepted part of the process.

I know it's a mess, but in this age of Trump, I'm grateful for any check on the federal government's power.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:13 am

Trump loves chaos but with his simple brain he does not understand that it is not a way to run a country but I agree it offers some form of protection. He stumbles around the place and officials just cant keep track of him.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Joe » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:32 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:54 pm
Joe wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:54 pm
Yeah, so how does Forty Two know how many of the uninsured are illegal immigrants? Pipes doesn't say.

I will be interested to see his source, if he didn't just make it up. :hehe:
I've questioned similar claims in the past as you know, and got bupkis in the way of substantiation. Maybe you'll have better luck. :lol:
It doesn't look like it L'Emmerdeur, but I know the numbers behind the article he misquotes. They're at the bottom of page 26.

Image

So, no 30 million uninsured making over $50K per year, and not a word about how many of the non-citizen uninsured are undocumented immigrants. :{D
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:54 am

I like the qualification under the title about the figures. Numbers in thousands.

I tried looking up the pdf but with no luck.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:09 pm

42 where? Has he posted again?
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:11 pm

On vacation. Fourth of July and all that.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Joe » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:39 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:54 am
I like the qualification under the title about the figures. Numbers in thousands.

I tried looking up the pdf but with no luck.
Trust the government to mess up a pdf link. :sulk:

I was thinking of you when I added the link, because the footnotes go into their methodology, which backs up your criticisms of the shaky methods they employ.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Joe wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:39 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:54 am
I like the qualification under the title about the figures. Numbers in thousands.

I tried looking up the pdf but with no luck.
Trust the government to mess up a pdf link. :sulk:

I was thinking of you when I added the link, because the footnotes go into their methodology, which backs up your criticisms of the shaky methods they employ.
Thanks Joe. Statistics are crucial to a country. Making estimations does not really work. I dont think the American government will have a clue what is going on concerning its southern border. The pressure to shift people will be adding a few five bar gates I am afraid. I dont get the impression that the Orange Scrotum bothers much about accuracy.
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by laklak » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:42 pm

Joe wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:49 pm
I know it's a mess, but in this age of Trump, I'm grateful for any check on the federal government's power.
I know a lot of people who said exactly the same thing, but substituted "Obama" for "Trump". Can't have it both ways - either the Feds have the power or they don't. I'm sure if Hillary had taken the Electoral College but lost the popular vote, a lot of liberals would be holding up the College as a fine method to avoid the Tyrrany of the Majority and lauding the Founding Fathers for their prescience.

It all seems to depend on whose ox is being gored.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Joe » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:08 pm

laklak wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:42 pm
Joe wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:49 pm
I know it's a mess, but in this age of Trump, I'm grateful for any check on the federal government's power.
I know a lot of people who said exactly the same thing, but substituted "Obama" for "Trump". Can't have it both ways - either the Feds have the power or they don't. I'm sure if Hillary had taken the Electoral College but lost the popular vote, a lot of liberals would be holding up the College as a fine method to avoid the Tyrrany of the Majority and lauding the Founding Fathers for their prescience.

It all seems to depend on whose ox is being gored.
We do have it both ways, Lak. That's the point of federalism, states and the fed share power, though it's pretty lopsided these days. And it's a mess, like I said.

As for the Electoral College, we probably shouldn't credit the Founding Fathers for it. Their version was dead as soon as old George Washington headed back to the farm. It took an amendment in 1804 to fix the Vice President problem, and at least 20 more years tinkering at the state level to get what we have today. At least they left wiggle room in the Constitution.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
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"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:33 pm

The electoral college was based on horse and buggy days. There was not even telegraph lines to send info.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Joe » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:46 pm

Yep, that was part of the design. They thought spreading the Electors out made it almost impossible for them to be corrupted in time to influence the choice of President. These days, that's a total joke.

Now, the beneficiaries of our system are the parties.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:33 am

https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:28 am

Joe wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:46 pm
Yep, that was part of the design. They thought spreading the Electors out made it almost impossible for them to be corrupted in time to influence the choice of President. These days, that's a total joke.

Now, the beneficiaries of our system are the parties.
It takes little movement to win the electoral college. The Russians knew that.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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