The US Healthcare Mass Debate

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Tero
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The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:59 am

Formerly Trumpcare + Single Payer Healthcare in the US

Well, he doesn't care, but....

Obamacare was supposed to ruin the economy, but it hasn’t, and that’s a problem for Trump and the GOP
https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl= ... pt0-278473

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) has called repeal “an act of mercy,” to stop the “death spiral” of the ACA. In a Wednesday night interview on Fox News, Trump repeated a pet theory that the ACA was intended to collapse in 2017, as soon as Barack Obama left office. (The theory is complicated by Obama’s work to elect Hillary Clinton, not Trump, as his successor.)

Another argument, which Trump has largely stopped making, is that the ACA has hurt the economy by encouraging people to leave the workforce. In 2014, Republicans (including Trump) said that a CBO report seeing a long-term work rate drop, equal to around 2.5 million jobs, was proof of the law’s devastation. But as then-CBO director Doug Elmendorf told Congress, the reductions came from the slow end of “job lock,” the phenomenon of people feeling as though they had to keep working or else they’d lose insurance.

“If someone comes to you and says I’ve decided to retire, or I’ve decided to stay home and spend more time with my family, or I’ve decided to spend more time doing my hobby — they don’t feel bad about it, they feel good about it,” Elmendorf said. “And we don’t sympathize, we say congratulations. And we don’t say they’ve lost their job, we say they’ve chosen to leave their job.”

The pitch....bears more than a few similarities to the 2005 push for Social Security reform. For much of that year, a reelected President George W. Bush stumped around the country, warning that the Social Security system would be running a deficit in most Americans’ lifetime, and that Congress needed to add personal accounts to the system to stave off disaster.
Last edited by Brian Peacock on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: retitled post merge

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:21 am

There are signs of more "stick it to the poor":

Two House committees approved the bill's provisions with no changes last week. The Budget Committee will try on Thursday to unify the plan into a single bill for consideration on the House floor. Republicans cannot afford to lose more than three from their ranks on the committee for it to pass. Three committee Republicans are members of the hardline conservative House Freedom Caucus.

Signs emerged on Wednesday that the White House was winning over reluctant conservatives who initially questioned the legislation on the grounds that it too closely resembled Obamacare, the signature domestic policy achievement of former President Barack Obama.

The administration indicated it was open to revisiting the plan's treatment of Medicaid, the government health insurance program for the poor, during a meeting with a conservative wing of the party.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16L1VF
Last edited by Tero on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:29 am

Tero wrote:Well, he doesn't care, but....

Obamacare was supposed to ruin the economy, but it hasn’t, and that’s a problem for Trump and the GOP
Of course it has. Triple digit rises in premiums and insurers abandoning the field, as I predicted YEARS ago in this very forum, resulting in people being unable to afford the mandatory policies, resulting in many of them just paying the penalties and going without insurance.
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) has called repeal “an act of mercy,” to stop the “death spiral” of the ACA. In a Wednesday night interview on Fox News, Trump repeated a pet theory that the ACA was intended to collapse in 2017, as soon as Barack Obama left office. (The theory is complicated by Obama’s work to elect Hillary Clinton, not Trump, as his successor.)
And it was so intended, as was predicted by Republicans shortly after it was put in place without a single Republican vote.
Another argument, which Trump has largely stopped making, is that the ACA has hurt the economy by encouraging people to leave the workforce. In 2014, Republicans (including Trump) said that a CBO report seeing a long-term work rate drop, equal to around 2.5 million jobs, was proof of the law’s devastation. But as then-CBO director Doug Elmendorf told Congress, the reductions came from the slow end of “job lock,” the phenomenon of people feeling as though they had to keep working or else they’d lose insurance.
Which ignores the 95 MILLION people who have given up looking for jobs who aren't part of the factoids the Obama bureaucracy concocts about job growth/shrinkage.
“If someone comes to you and says I’ve decided to retire, or I’ve decided to stay home and spend more time with my family, or I’ve decided to spend more time doing my hobby — they don’t feel bad about it, they feel good about it,” Elmendorf said. “And we don’t sympathize, we say congratulations. And we don’t say they’ve lost their job, we say they’ve chosen to leave their job.”
And if they say "I've been looking for a job for years and cannot find one so I'm going to stop looking" they are elided from the statistics entirely in order to cover up the vast pool of unemployed misery Obama created.
The pitch....bears more than a few similarities to the 2005 push for Social Security reform. For much of that year, a reelected President George W. Bush stumped around the country, warning that the Social Security system would be running a deficit in most Americans’ lifetime, and that Congress needed to add personal accounts to the system to stave off disaster.
And it is dying and the Social Security Trust Fund will soon be entirely empty, thanks in large part to Democrats borrowing from it and issuing worthless "IOUs" in place of the cash it's supposed to have.
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:34 am

Seth wrote:
Tero wrote:Well, he doesn't care, but....

Obamacare was supposed to ruin the economy, but it hasn’t, and that’s a problem for Trump and the GOP
Of course it has. Triple digit rises in premiums and insurers abandoning the field, as I predicted YEARS ago in this very forum, resulting in people being unable to afford the mandatory policies, resulting in many of them just paying the penalties and going without insurance.
That hasn't ruined your economy. Read what Tero wrote. In fact by boosting the revenue of the insurance companies it would have improved the economy in that part.

What's actually ruined your economy is record levels of inequality, massive personal and national debt, and the destruction of your manufacturing base by off-shoring everything.
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:35 am

Tax the upper income for social security as well. Give no more than 50% back to the rich folks after they retire. Full pension for their lower earnings.

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:15 am

First we tax up to 200 000 as opposed to now:
https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/h ... of-my.aspx

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tyrannical » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:30 am

Want affordable health care for all Americans?

A good start is kicking out all the "poor" illegals and their anchor babies. Don't care how "hard" or "hardly" :hehe: they work, what ever it is doesn't come close to paying enough taxes for the benefits they consume.

Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that the country will be richer as a whole when you can kick out 10-20 million parasites?
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:17 am

Tyrannical wrote:Want affordable health care for all Americans?

A good start is kicking out all the "poor" illegals and their anchor babies. Don't care how "hard" or "hardly" :hehe: they work, what ever it is doesn't come close to paying enough taxes for the benefits they consume.

Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that the country will be richer as a whole when you can kick out 10-20 million parasites?
How do illegals get benefits? Wouldn't the very fact that they are illegal preclude them from getting benefits?
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by rainbow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:12 am

pErvin wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Want affordable health care for all Americans?

A good start is kicking out all the "poor" illegals and their anchor babies. Don't care how "hard" or "hardly" :hehe: they work, what ever it is doesn't come close to paying enough taxes for the benefits they consume.

Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that the country will be richer as a whole when you can kick out 10-20 million parasites?
How do illegals get benefits? Wouldn't the very fact that they are illegal preclude them from getting benefits?
:ab: How dare you bring logic into it :ab:
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:22 am

It's secret benefits from sekret markcysts in big gubment...
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:34 pm

US constitution
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:08 pm

pErvin wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Want affordable health care for all Americans?

A good start is kicking out all the "poor" illegals and their anchor babies. Don't care how "hard" or "hardly" :hehe: they work, what ever it is doesn't come close to paying enough taxes for the benefits they consume.

Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that the country will be richer as a whole when you can kick out 10-20 million parasites?
How do illegals get benefits? Wouldn't the very fact that they are illegal preclude them from getting benefits?
It's supposed to, but for the last 8 years Obama ignored the laws prohibiting them from doing so.
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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:09 pm

Tero wrote:Tax the upper income for social security as well. Give no more than 50% back to the rich folks after they retire. Full pension for their lower earnings.
Why? Because they have something you don't? That's the mentality of thieves. Of course that's also the mentality of Marxists.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:11 pm

pErvin wrote:
Seth wrote:
Tero wrote:Well, he doesn't care, but....

Obamacare was supposed to ruin the economy, but it hasn’t, and that’s a problem for Trump and the GOP
Of course it has. Triple digit rises in premiums and insurers abandoning the field, as I predicted YEARS ago in this very forum, resulting in people being unable to afford the mandatory policies, resulting in many of them just paying the penalties and going without insurance.
That hasn't ruined your economy. Read what Tero wrote. In fact by boosting the revenue of the insurance companies it would have improved the economy in that part.
I thought you didn't read my posts. You must be lying when you say you don't. In any event, did you mean the insurance companies who are abandoning Obamacare right and left?
What's actually ruined your economy is record levels of inequality, massive personal and national debt, and the destruction of your manufacturing base by off-shoring everything.
Well, you got the last claim right anyway, but Trump is putting a stop to that. Everything else you said is horseshit as usual.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Trumpcare

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:13 pm

That's how taxes work, seth. Tax the rich. Our only tool.

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