The Ethics of Punching Nazis

[Forty Two]

Regarding what's inconclusive in the video, at about 18 seconds in, Rosealma (real name Marshall or Neuart) appears to be possibly about to hit the guy and/or wielding a bottle, but it's not clear. So, I judged it "inconclusive."

I find her size to be relevant, and I'm normally opposed to hitting women, as they are normally, even if they are the same height as a man, much physically weaker. I've known women as tall and nearly as tall as me, and not a one of them could punch me in a way to hurt me.

That being said, perhaps a glass bottle would change my outlook in the moment.



I add to that the fact that she openly declared her intent in going there was to attack demonstrators, and the avowed purpose of the organization she was with is to do violence.
She was, "Heading to Berkeley to disrupt the white supremacist/neo-nazi circle jerk today. Nervous af but determined to bring back 100 Nazi Scalps today." She went wearing a glove (we could inquire what kind of glove that was - was it weighted?)

Her organization has signs, also, depicting a figure assaulting an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent with a baseball bat. Now, her expression of intent and the signs her group puts up does not mean she's fair game to be attacked. What it shows, to me, is some objective evidence of her subjective intent in being where she was in the first place, and it provides context. After the event, she was interviewed, and she said that the only time she was holding a bottle was to clean up the trash. From the video I've seen, etc., it does not look like she was playing maid to the protests at the time of the event, and a Reuters picture shows her holding a bottle and there is video evidence of her swinging a bottle, not cleaning up the trash. But, again, inconclusive.

To be conclusive, I think we need some additional evidence as to what went on in the seconds leading up to the incident.

If she was wielding that bottle, then it's certainly possible the punch came as a response to the idea of being hit by it. Also, if the lead-up to the punch shows that she is throwing glass bottles at people, then action should be taken against her to stop it (and I make no reference to any allegation about putting M-80s in the bottles - just plain old glass bottles are weapons in situations like this, or when thrown).

If that position is "unsurprising" - then I take it as a compliment.

[Forty Two]

Women are equal, gender is a social construct, ho noes don't hit a girl. Fuck off feminist and SJW as either women are equal to men or they are not. Pick one and stick with it or fuck off you hypocrites.

As ever, the hen-pecked little man trying to sound tough.

Does being little have anything to do with it? Some men are short and small. Does that have any relevance to their character?

Also, henpecked is a sexist term, used to describe a man who is criticized by and given orders by a woman. Does that say something about his character? Would you say the same thing about a woman who is criticized by or given orders by a man? Would that be a negative feature of her personality?

In the modern parlance of social justice and progressive identity politics, moreover, it's oppressive and discriminatory to assume her gender. I don't see as where she has given us her gender or her preferred pronouns. She may well be a man. It would be at least a microaggression to assume anything about her gender based on her appearance.

[L'Emmerdeur]

Regarding what's inconclusive in the video, at about 18 seconds in, Rosealma (real name Marshall or Neuart) appears to be possibly about to hit the guy and/or wielding a bottle, but it's not clear. So, I judged it "inconclusive."

I don't see her anywhere in the shot at 0:18, nor 0:17, nor 0:19. Feel free to take a screencap and show us what you're talking about. The rest of your post is nothing but transparent apologism. Going by your previous posts in this thread and elsewhere, I am certain that if a "leftist scum" had been caught on video doing what Damigo did, you'd be beside yourself, yammering about how somebody should be "beating the shit out of" him (in self defense, of course).

[Forty Two]

Regarding what's inconclusive in the video, at about 18 seconds in, Rosealma (real name Marshall or Neuart) appears to be possibly about to hit the guy and/or wielding a bottle, but it's not clear. So, I judged it "inconclusive."

I don't see her anywhere in the shot at 0:18, nor 0:17, nor 0:19. Feel free to take a screencap and show us what you're talking about. The rest of your post is nothing but transparent apologism. Going by your previous posts in this thread and elsewhere, I am certain that if a "leftist scum" had been caught on video doing what Damigo did, you'd be beside yourself, yammering about how somebody should be "beating the shit out of" him (in self defense, of course).

Well, no, I think you're being rather unfair, as I am not suggesting any defense of the rightist scum, Damigo. All I said was that it was inconclusive. It appears to me, overall, likely that both of them went there looking for a fight, and that neither are innocent here. I'm not going to be enraged in any way by two people who go looking for a fight and then find it.

I've watched the video a few times, and right before he punches her, they appear to be moving toward each other, and her fist comes up to his throat - possibly an "upper cut" - whereas he comes over the top with either a right cross or a jab or something in-between. I'm just not seeing this the same way you are. I'm not saying she's in the wrong here in relation to Damigo. All I'm saying is that it seems inconclusive.

Her claims of innocence afterward - exaggeration of her injuries - her interview moments before the event happened where she was asked if she condoned the use of explosives, and she said "the revolution doesn't come easy..." and all that. She's not a sympathetic figure. Neither is Damigo, who, apparently, is the founder of some white supremacist group that I've never heard of. He sounds like he's half nuts, and half asshole. So, I don't sympathize with him either. What looks like happened here is two people who are both involved in distasteful organizations showed up looking to rumble, and they got it.

If he simply cold-cocked her without provocation, then he's at fault. But, I'm not sure how you can be so clear on that from the video. She's holding a bottle at some point, which is a weapon, and there are some witness comments being reported that bottles were being thrown. She's in the fray, and seems to be squaring off a bit, but that could be that she's just sort of panicking in the melee, hoping not to get hit. She seems to square up looking to our right (when looking at the video) and she moves toward the right, while at the same time Damigo is coming into view from the right to the left. Her hand goes up to his throat, and his hand comes over the top, virtually simultaneously.

There is room to conclude what you've concluded. I grant you that. However, I don't think it's "conclusive." That's basically my position on it. If you disagree, find, but there's not need to make the implications you seem to make here. I'm not defending anyone.

[Animavore]

[pErvinalia]

Some good advice there...

[Animavore]

I'd actually use open hand techniques rather than risk hurting my wrist or knuckles. Elbow strikes work best for me though.

[Brian Peacock]

I see another white-supremacist has struck out for the cause in Oregon. Are there any violent neo-nazis out there who aren't mentally disturbed?

[Animavore]

Not much use bringing a punch to a knife fight. This is why some of my liberal friends on Facebook are packing heat. Forget punching, they say, if a Nazi comes at you you need to shoot them.

[JimC]

Strafing and rocket attacks by a squadron of Typhoons gets the job done very effectively - just ask any SS division in Normandy...

[mistermack]

Not all Nazis are bad.

It's just the odd bad egg that gives them a bad name.

Who wouldn't want a world full of happy, strong, blonde, beautiful people? It's a no-brainer.
It's a shame you have to get rid of all the others, to achieve it. But the end surely justifies the means?

[L'Emmerdeur]

"Portland Republican says party should use militia groups after racial attack"

As tensions continue in Portland following the racially charged murder of two men on Friday, the top Republican in the city said he is considering using militia groups as security for public events.

Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche, 23, and Rick Best, 53, were stabbed to death and 21-year-old student Micah David-Cole Fletcher was injured when they came to the aid of two women being subjected to hate speech on public transport. The suspect, Jeremy Christian, 35, was found to hold white supremacist views and to have attended an “alt-right” rally in the city.

...

“I am sort of evolving to the point where I think that it is appropriate for Republicans to continue to go out there,” [Multnomah County GOP chair James Buchal] said. “And if they need to have a security force protecting them, that’s an appropriate thing too.”

Asked if this meant Republicans making their own security arrangements rather than relying on city or state police, Buchal said: “Yeah. And there are these people arising, like the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters.”

Asked if he was considering such groups as security providers, Buchal said: “Yeah. We’re thinking about that. Because there are now belligerent, unstable people who are convinced that Republicans are like Nazis.”

[Forty Two]

Not much use bringing a punch to a knife fight. This is why some of my liberal friends on Facebook are packing heat. Forget punching, they say, if a Nazi comes at you you need to shoot them.

Well, indeed. If anyone "comes at you", then do what you need to do to defend yourself, with vigor, and with assurance that the threat is stopped.

[Forty Two]

"Portland Republican says party should use militia groups after racial attack"

As tensions continue in Portland following the racially charged murder of two men on Friday, the top Republican in the city said he is considering using militia groups as security for public events.

Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche, 23, and Rick Best, 53, were stabbed to death and 21-year-old student Micah David-Cole Fletcher was injured when they came to the aid of two women being subjected to hate speech on public transport. The suspect, Jeremy Christian, 35, was found to hold white supremacist views and to have attended an “alt-right” rally in the city.

...

“I am sort of evolving to the point where I think that it is appropriate for Republicans to continue to go out there,” [Multnomah County GOP chair James Buchal] said. “And if they need to have a security force protecting them, that’s an appropriate thing too.”

Asked if this meant Republicans making their own security arrangements rather than relying on city or state police, Buchal said: “Yeah. And there are these people arising, like the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters.”

Asked if he was considering such groups as security providers, Buchal said: “Yeah. We’re thinking about that. Because there are now belligerent, unstable people who are convinced that Republicans are like Nazis.”

I read a few articles on this - anyone know what the facts of the dispute are? What was the "hate speech" that the woman was being subjected to and how was she being subjected to it? And, what did the people who got killed do when they intervened? I'm not seeing much clarity.

[Hermit]

"Portland Republican says party should use militia groups after racial attack"

As tensions continue in Portland following the racially charged murder of two men on Friday, the top Republican in the city said he is considering using militia groups as security for public events.

Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche, 23, and Rick Best, 53, were stabbed to death and 21-year-old student Micah David-Cole Fletcher was injured when they came to the aid of two women being subjected to hate speech on public transport. The suspect, Jeremy Christian, 35, was found to hold white supremacist views and to have attended an “alt-right” rally in the city.

...

“I am sort of evolving to the point where I think that it is appropriate for Republicans to continue to go out there,” [Multnomah County GOP chair James Buchal] said. “And if they need to have a security force protecting them, that’s an appropriate thing too.”

Asked if this meant Republicans making their own security arrangements rather than relying on city or state police, Buchal said: “Yeah. And there are these people arising, like the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters.”

Asked if he was considering such groups as security providers, Buchal said: “Yeah. We’re thinking about that. Because there are now belligerent, unstable people who are convinced that Republicans are like Nazis.”

I read a few articles on this - anyone know what the facts of the dispute are? What was the "hate speech" that the woman was being subjected to and how was she being subjected to it? And, what did the people who got killed do when they intervened? I'm not seeing much clarity.

Well, Jeremy Christian was deeply offended by the presence of brown sluts and courteously said exactly that. Of course he had to defend himself from the loutish objections by Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche, Rick Best, and Micah David-Cole Fletcher. Of course, being outnumbered by voices 3:1 he had to safeguard his life by stabbing two of them to death and attempting to kill the third. Tongues can be really sharp, you know?

I hope that provides the clarity you seek.