Is the Spanish language offensive to trans people?

[Forty Two]

The Spanish language is gendered, meaning that words can be "male" or "female." Like, muchacha is a woman, and muchacho is a man. Shouldn't the Spanish be required to have a variety of different genders for each gendered word?

If not, why not?

[Svartalf]

shuck that too Gendered languages are alright as they are.

[NineBerry]

There are probably a lot of discussions on this in the Spanish language community. There's a lot of discussions on this in German.

In German, you make a female noun from a make noun by adding "in" at the end.

For example, "Lehrer" is the German word for a male teacher while "Lehrerin" is the word for a female teacher.

Now one problem is that using the male variant is the default. So, when speaking generally about people, only the male words are used. So, in order to fix this problem there are several proposals. One could for example always use the female form "Lehrerin". But this would cause the same problem as before, just the other way around.

So, there are other proposals like for example using a capital I within the word "LehrerIn". Other examples are variants of a "gender gap" which is used to also include people with non-binary genders. Possible variants are "Lehrer_in", "Lehrer*in"

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendergap ... guistik%29

[JimC]

There are probably a lot of discussions on this in the Spanish language community. There's a lot of discussions on this in German.

In German, you make a female noun from a make noun by adding "in" at the end.

For example, "Lehrer" is the German word for a male teacher while "Lehrerin" is the word for a female teacher.

Now one problem is that using the male variant is the default. So, when speaking generally about people, only the male words are used. So, in order to fix this problem there are several proposals. One could for example always use the female form "Lehrerin". But this would cause the same problem as before, just the other way around.

So, there are other proposals like for example using a capital I within the word "LehrerIn". Other examples are variants of a "gender gap" which is used to also include people with non-binary genders. Possible variants are "Lehrer_in", "Lehrer*in"

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendergap ... guistik%29

How about a random number generator built in to a German language word processor that randomly assigns the 2 alternatives with an overall 50/50 distribution?

[pErvinalia]

Oh man, FortyTwo has discovered that other languages have gendered nouns. We're in for it now...

[rainbow]

Oh man, FortyTwo has discovered that other languages have gendered nouns. We're in for it now...

Farty probably believes that the Spanish lisp is making fun of his sexuality.

[Svartalf]

While 80% of actual spanish speakers use it to make fun of the sexuality of Castillans...

[NineBerry]

How about a random number generator built in to a German language word processor that randomly assigns the 2 alternatives with an overall 50/50 distribution?

This has actually been proposed by people: Use the male and female form in turns. But what about non-binary-gender people then? There are other proposals to use a completely new word form when the gender is not known. For example, replacing gendered endings of words referring to people with "-x". So, it would be "Lehrex" for a teacher whose gender is not known.

[Hermit]

How about a random number generator built in to a German language word processor that randomly assigns the 2 alternatives with an overall 50/50 distribution?

This has actually been proposed by people: Use the male and female form in turns. But what about non-binary-gender people then? There are other proposals to use a completely new word form when the gender is not known. For example, replacing gendered endings of words referring to people with "-x". So, it would be "Lehrex" for a teacher whose gender is not known.

Well in German there is "der", "die" and "das". Why not restrict use to only the last one? It's gender-neutral. "Das Sonne" "Das Mond" "Das Warmer"

[NineBerry]

Well, it is not so easy, because it is not only the articles and pronouns. Words in German have gendered word endings. If you said "Das Lehrer", "Lehrer" is still the male form. It is the case that for some typically female occupations, a female word is used instead which enforces gender stereotypes. For example when speaking about secretaries (in an office setting), the female word "Sekretärin" is used assuming that all secretaries must be women and thereby making it more difficult for both men and women to break through such stereotypes. When you talk about people working in a hospital and say "doctors and nurses", in english, this is gender neutral. but in German one would say "Ärzte und Schwestern" which basically translates to "male doctors and female nurses". While the english speaker may have internalised the stereotype that doctors are male and nurses are female, this stereotype is actually enforced in the German language.

Now considering articles and pronouns, using the neutrum forms "das", "es" etc would not work because it would turn persons into things. For the same reason, it is not proposed that english speakers use "it" as a neutral pronoun for people because that would turn them into things. Instead, a new personal pronoun is proposed. Now this is certainly offensive to things, but who cares about things? They don't have a vote.

[rainbow]

Now considering articles and pronouns, using the neutrum forms "das", "es" etc would not work because it would turn persons into things. For the same reason, it is not proposed that english speakers use "it" as a neutral pronoun for people because that would turn them into things.

...and that would be bad, because...?

If you need to use a common pronoun, use the common pronoun - they, them, their...
Try to cope with the fact that it is also used for the plural.

[Hermit]

Well, it is not so easy, because it is not only the articles and pronouns. Words in German have gendered word endings.

Not as difficult as you make out. Just decree that "Lehrer" becomes gender neutral by virtue of being prefixed with "das". Germans are notorious for being obedient. One or three generations from now nobody will even remember that Lehrer was originally reserved for male teachers unless they did a course in gender studies as a subset of some history class, and then, as they say, the problem will be academic.

Now considering articles and pronouns, using the neutrum forms "das", "es" etc would not work because it would turn persons into things.

Use "neutral" instead of "neutrum" and the emotional baggage disappears. The transition should be easy. Germans are notorious for being sachlich.

[rainbow]

Well, it is not so easy, because it is not only the articles and pronouns. Words in German have gendered word endings.

Not as difficult as you make out. Just decree that "Lehrer" becomes gender neutral by virtue of being prefixed with "das". Germans ar notorious for being obedient. One or three generations from now nobody will even remember that Lehrer was originally reserved for male teachers unless they did a course in gender studies as a subset of some history class, and then, as they say, the problem will be academic.

Now considering articles and pronouns, using the neutrum forms "das", "es" etc would not work because it would turn persons into things.

Use "neutral" instead of "neutrum" and the emotional baggage disappears. The transition should be easy. Germans are notorious for being sachlich.

Gerpeople surely?

[pErvinalia]

[Brian Peacock]

How about a random number generator built in to a German language word processor that randomly assigns the 2 alternatives with an overall 50/50 distribution?

This has actually been proposed by people: Use the male and female form in turns. But what about non-binary-gender people then? There are other proposals to use a completely new word form when the gender is not known. For example, replacing gendered endings of words referring to people with "-x". So, it would be "Lehrex" for a teacher whose gender is not known.

Why not just call all teachers pedagogues?