Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:23 am

"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:30 am

Lock them up!

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigators have issued a subpoena to President Trump’s election campaign for documents related to Russia, according to a new report.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Mueller’s team issued the subpoena in mid-October, requesting documents and emails from over a dozen top campaign officials that include several keywords related to Russia

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:22 pm

pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
....and there is nothing illegal or even immoral for Wikileaks to collude with Russia against someone running for office....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Seabass wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Communications between Trump campaign and wikileaks != communications between trump campaign and russian officials/intelligence.
So Wikileaks was a proxy. Does that absolve the Trump campaign of all guilt? I guess we'll find out in due course.
guilt for what? What is the crime?
Seabass wrote: from Tero's article above:
Donald Trump Jr.’s private Twitter correspondence with WikiLeaks adds significant detail to the emerging picture of a political alliance between the Trump campaign and Russia in 2016. It provides evidence of criminal violations of federal campaign-finance rules, which prohibit foreign spending in U.S. elections.

The prohibition has a broad sweep. It disallows contributions, donations, or “anything of value” provided by a foreign national to sway an election.
The things of value do not include information like this -- if it did, then Fusion GPS providing "research" and dossiers to Clinton would constitute the same offense. It doesn't.
Seabass wrote:
The law on aiding and abetting brings the point out in plain terms: As the fabled jurist Learned Hand once put it, the aider and abettor is one who “associate himself with the [illegal] venture, … participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, [and] seek by his action to make it succeed.” This seems to capture precisely the Trump campaign’s 2016 engagement with the WikiLeaks-Russian political partnership.


Other than the fact that there is no illegal ventue shown here, and there is nothing here that shows that Trump's folks associated with that non-alleged illegal venture, participated in it, or helped make it succeed.

Wikileaks is not illegal. Foreign media are not illegal. If I learn that a reporter has information on my opponent and that Reporter is French and in France, I don't commit any crime by emailing the reporter to arrange for that reporter to deliver the information to me. It's certainly valuable information, if it damages my opponent and the french reporter is foreign national, and my overt plan is to defeat my opponent by exposing damaging information.

There is nothing wrong withthat. And there is nothing wrong if the French reporter is Wikileaks. And, it doesn't become wrong even if Wikileaks got the information from a Russian source.

Seabass wrote:
Trump Jr. dismissed his private Twitter messages as only a “whopping three responses” in a tweet Monday night. But, for legal purposes, just one or two would have been sufficient. Add them to the other contacts with Russia, as well as the president’s publicly stated support for WikiLeaks’ and Russia’s intervention, and the messages confirm that Trump Sr. and his presidential campaign face a “whopping” legal problem.


That summation is just absurd political nonsense. The tweets are not illegal or even improper, and they don't evidence any offense.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:07 pm

pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
If I give Seabass a bag of stolen cheese and bacon products, and then tell you that Seabass has something you're going to be really interested in, are we colluding? Well, probably not in the 'dastardly secret plan' sense - it's more likely that a fine upstanding member of the community like yourself is just being manipulated into 'accidentally' coming across something you'd really like to have.

I could, I guess, ask somebody who works for me to set up a meeting with a mate of yours where hints could be dropped about the existence of some tasty rashers and Rockfort, and where to find them. Are we colluding now? Probably, not - you're just acting on information and still being manipulated.

But what if you know that these particular rashers and Rockfort are of such good quality that, if you can get your hand on them you can make a quiche that is really going to increase your chances of winning the local food and produce show?

What if you start nagging Seabass for more juicey foodstuffs or let it be known that you're interested in anything else that might come his way? Are we colluding then? Probably not - you're just being a sneak, and even though I primed you and manipulated you into being extra sneaky than you otherwise might have been, because I know just how much winning the local food and produce show means to you, you're still being manipulated.

What if you know you're being manipulated but you just don't care - and you're happy to get whatever advantage you can over your opposition, 'specially that nasty bitch from number 42 who everybody says is a shoe-in for the prize money?

What if I lent you more money than you could pay back to buy your house and knew that you paid a thrupenny strumpet to piss in the saucepans of the previous winner, and brought this up when mentioning what Seabass was in possession of? Well that turns the manipulation into blackmail doesn't it, because it contains an element of threat - the threat of exposure, particularly if I let you know that it's in all our interests that you use what Seabass is holding for you. Are we colluding now? You're eager to avoid being exposed and so you're happy to follow my lead - you're an unwilling participant, but a participant nonetheless.

This is where I think you and your campaign to become the King of the Quiches sits: primed and triggered, manipulated, cajoled, and perhaps even bullied into making particular choices for particular ends, but behaviour ultimately justified because winning the food and produce show is so important to you, both financially and personally - means that justify the ends.

I should probably mention that I hate that nasty woman at number 42 as well, and that I'm the 10 times winner of my local food and produce show. You lot go on about how great and fantastic your show is and about how it's the best show in the world and how the winner of your show is champion of the universe and everything, and it really gets on my tits. It shows me no respect. It disrespects my skills and achievements. And besides, you're no cook. If it wasn't for me you wouldn't even make the quarter finals. I'm going to make you and everyone else understand that your show is a farce and that the one I've won for the last 10 years is the only real show in town, and it doesn't matter that I've bribed all the judges and frightened off my competitors, and those I couldn't frightened of I've had ostracised, had their kitchens impounded by the police, or thrown them out of 4th story windows. That's the kind guy I am, and I don't care who knows it. In fact I want everybody to know what kind of guy I am. When you deal with me you deal with the devil, and in order to win you've got to ask yourself if you're prepared to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight. Are you?

I am The King Of The Quiches, and there can be only one.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Animavore » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:46 pm

What a delicious analogy. :food:
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Tero » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:58 am

Kushner newspaper published material from Russian hackers
Kushner’s former newspaper the “New York Observer” promoted WikiLeaks hacks during the 2016 election, and became the favored outlet of a suspected Russian hacker. Former Editor-in-Chief Elizabeth Spiers speaks exclusively to “The Beat.” Duration: 5:22
http://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari- ... 0346435540
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:49 am

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
....and there is nothing illegal or even immoral for Wikileaks to collude with Russia against someone running for office....
Stop being disingenuous. The charge isn't that wikileaks colluded with russia against Clinton. The charge is that those two AND the trump campaign colluded to subvert your democracy.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:53 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
If I give Seabass a bag of stolen cheese and bacon products, and then tell you that Seabass has something you're going to be really interested in, are we colluding? Well, probably not
Exactly. No need for qualification or equivocation. It's not collusion. What would be damning is if Trump's campaign actively engaged wikileaks/russia to hack the DNC.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:12 am

And I'm sure anyone engaged in that type of activity would be aware of that.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 am

Yep, although, going by some of the bizarre "it's not illegal" apologetics by a certain numbermember who shall not be named, nothing can be taken for granted with the fanatics..
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:53 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
If I give Seabass a bag of stolen cheese and bacon products, and then tell you that Seabass has something you're going to be really interested in, are we colluding? Well, probably not
Exactly. No need for qualification or equivocation. It's not collusion. What would be damning is if Trump's campaign actively engaged wikileaks/russia to hack the DNC.
If they did that, then they are guilty of serious federal crime, and should be arrested. If they "actively engaged a person/entity to "hack" a computer system" then they are part of a criminal conspiracy, and active participants in a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. There is a very very low threshold as to what constitutes a computer crime. If they actively engaged someone to hack the DNC's computers, then they would be in clear violation of federal law and guilty of a felony that could result in 20+ years of prison time.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:55 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
....and there is nothing illegal or even immoral for Wikileaks to collude with Russia against someone running for office....
Stop being disingenuous. The charge isn't that wikileaks colluded with russia against Clinton. The charge is that those two AND the trump campaign colluded to subvert your democracy.
Nobody has actually made that "charge." And, the same intelligence agencies that you have relied on in the past have said that there is no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. That's from the intelligence agency heads testifying before Congress. When one of them says they have any evidence of collusion, let me know.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:"So wikileaks was a proxy"

This is the assumption that is being made, with no evidence that i've seen so far. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but getting dudded by a wikileaks dump != wikileaks and Russia colluded against me.
....and there is nothing illegal or even immoral for Wikileaks to collude with Russia against someone running for office....
Stop being disingenuous. The charge isn't that wikileaks colluded with russia against Clinton. The charge is that those two AND the trump campaign colluded to subvert your democracy.
Nobody has actually made that "charge."
My God, the rock you live under must be monumentally big. :fp:
And, the same intelligence agencies that you have relied on in the past have said that there is no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.
That means precisely zilch until they conclude their investigations. You know this. I don't know why you carry on with this charade.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Seabass » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:02 am

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
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