Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

[Seabass]

Oops, wrong thread.

[Forty Two]

It's no-ones fault! Nobody did nufink guv'nah. 'Onest!

The Russians have been trying to interfere with our elections for 50 years.

[pErvinalia]

So how is it so inconceivable that someone as dodgy as Trump and/or his associates could be colluding with them?

[Brian Peacock]

It's no-ones fault! Nobody did nufink guv'nah. 'Onest!

The Russians have been trying to interfere with our elections for 50 years.

It was only you positing that Trump was responsible for Russian interfernce. The question is, being as everybody knew that the Russians have been interfering with US elections for 50 years, did the Trump campaign utilise or rely on it as a political resource?

[JimC]

It's no-ones fault! Nobody did nufink guv'nah. 'Onest!

The Russians have been trying to interfere with our erections for 50 years.

:fixed:

[Forty Two]

So how is it so inconceivable that someone as dodgy as Trump and/or his associates could be colluding with them?

I can conceive of it. It's not inconceivalbe that someone as dodgy as Ted Kennedy or Hillary Clinton, or George Bush or Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham would be "colluding" with them.

There isn't any evidence of it, though. Not that I've seen. So....

Isn't it likewise conceivable that it's a political ploy by Trump's opponents, who are legion? Conceivable, mind you. In the honest, and upward, non-shady, world of American politics, where the dead vote, and political dirty tricks are common, is it even CONCEIVABLE that Trump did not collude?

In John F. Kennedy's 1946 run for Congress, Joe Kennedy, to help his son’s chances in the Democratic primary, allegedly paid a man named Joseph Russo to run — greatly reducing the chances of the other Joseph Russo who was already running in the primary because two Joseph Russos were on the ballot.

In 2000, false rumors were spread in South Carolina that John McCain’s adopted Bangladeshi daughter was his illegitimate offspring.

In his first election to the Senate, Lyndon Baines Johnson overcame a 20,000-vote deficit in a primary runoff election thanks to votes that, as biographer Robert A. Caro and others have argued, were manufactured. Most famously, 202 Mexican-American voters, some already deceased, cast ballots in alphabetical order at the last minute on election day in Jim Wells County.

Two Democratic Party officials in Michigan’s Oakland County admitted to putting fake Tea Party candidates on the ballot (not those pictured above) — without those candidates’ knowledge — in an attempt to split the Republican vote.

J. Edgar Hoover’s agents spread rumors that the two-time Democratic presidential nominee Adlai Stevenson was gay.

On the eve of the 2000 presidential election, the Republican National Committee’s website was hacked to display an anti-Bush message and a link to Al Gore’s campaign website.

During the 1996 Presidential campaign the Chinese worked to interfere with the election to favor Bill Clinton.

In the 1980s, Senator Ted Kennedy reached out the Soviet KGB to offer his help in interfering with the election of 1984. The London Times revealed a 1983 KGB document from KGB chief Viktor Chebrikov to the then-leader of the USSR, Yuri Andropov. Chebrikov relayed an offer presented to the Soviet leaders from Kennedy, delivered in person by "Sen. Edward Kennedy's close friend and trusted confidant" John Tunney, a former Democratic senator who was Kennedy's law school roommate.

Kennedy, according to the memo, offered to help the Soviets deal with Reagan, whom Kennedy perceived as a warmonger. Kennedy would "arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." In exchange, Kennedy wanted Soviet aid in challenging Reagan's re-election. Kennedy offered to use his influential friends in liberal American media to arrange television interviews for Andropov. This would soften the Soviets' image, Kennedy suggested, and help brand Reagan as reckless and dangerous. The memo said, "Kennedy does not discount that during the 1984 campaign, the Democratic Party may officially turn to him to lead the fight against the Republicans and elect their candidate president." https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 34515.html

The US intelligence community oversaw illegal coups in South America, and fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin incident to give Lyndon Johnson the excuse to become seriously involved in Vietnam. And, let's not forget the US and UK intelligence communities' involvements in Iran and other places around the world. And, all the lies told about these incidents.

A lot of things are "conceivable."

If wanting evidence showing that the President did, in fact, do something wrong is not an acceptable position to take, then I guess I just don't agree with you on that.

[Brian Peacock]

Gosh, you're swimming so hard against the tide there - and it ain't never going to turn.

[Brian Peacock]

Bannon has reportedly been summoned by Mueller to go before the grand jury. Check your favourite news outlet for details.

[JimC]

Bannon has reportedly been summoned by Mueller to go before the grand jury. Check your favourite news outlet for details.

Perhaps he'll hole up somewhere with a bunch of red-neck survivalists and go down in a hail of lead, in the best traditions of Waco...

[pErvinalia]

So how is it so inconceivable that someone as dodgy as Trump and/or his associates could be colluding with them?

I can conceive of it.

Yet you claim it's all a political beatup.

Isn't it likewise conceivable that it's a political ploy by Trump's opponents, who are legion? Conceivable, mind you.

It's possible, but HIGHLY unlikely, given there are bipartisan inquiries into possible collusion, and the FBI is at worst apolitical and at best acting on behalf of its Republican commander in chief (according to your logic when Obama was Prez).

[L'Emmerdeur]

The Trump White House imagines it's capable of stopping people from testifying before Congress even regarding events which took place before Trump was sworn in. Nothing to see here, folks. FAKE NEWS! NO COLLUSION, NO COLLUSION!!!

"Intel Dem decries White House 'gag order' after Bannon testimony"

The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday night slammed what he described as a "gag order by the White House" following testimony from President Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon before the panel amid its Russia probe.

Bannon refused to answer questions related to his time in the White House and on the transition team during 10 hours of testimony before the panel, according to lawmakers, cabining his responses to his stint on the campaign.

That limitation was at the request of the White House, ranking member Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) told reporters when the interview broke on Tuesday evening.

Bannon’s counsel conferred with the White House after the committee issued a subpoena, Schiff said, “and was instructed by the White House to refuse again to answer any questions concerning the time during the transition and his time in the administration.”

“The scope of this assertion of privilege—if that’s what it is—is breathtaking,” Schiff said. “It goes well beyond anything we’ve seen in this investigation … This was effectively a gag order by the White House.”

The White House in a statement earlier in the day said it is “fully cooperative” with the ongoing investigation without addressing directly whether it had instructed Bannon not to answer certain questions.

“As with all congressional inquiries touching upon the White House, Congress must consult with the White House prior to obtaining confidential material,” press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said.

[Brian Peacock]

What? I think I must have read that wrong. The administration has the power to instruct Congress in this regard?

[Forty Two]

It's no-ones fault! Nobody did nufink guv'nah. 'Onest!

The Russians have been trying to interfere with our elections for 50 years.

It was only you positing that Trump was responsible for Russian interfernce. The question is, being as everybody knew that the Russians have been interfering with US elections for 50 years, did the Trump campaign utilise or rely on it as a political resource?

I've never posited that Trump was responsible for Russian interference. That's the whole Russiagate allegation - blaming Trump for Russia putting out propaganda and implying that Trump was in cahoots with the Russkies in relation to the hacking of emails.

This is a new phrase - "utilise or rely on it [Russia] as a political resource." What might Trump have done that would fall within that blurb, and also be illegal or unethical or immoral?

[Tero]

First question: have you seen the pee pee tapes?
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics/ ... index.html

Washington (CNN)Steve Bannon has struck a deal with special counsel Robert Mueller's team and will be interviewed by prosecutors instead of testifying before the grand jury, two people familiar with the process told CNN. He is expected to cooperate with the special counsel, the sources said.

The sources did not say when the interview will take place or if the subpoena would be withdrawn.
Bannon, the former White House chief strategist for President Donald Trump, is expected to talk openly to Mueller's team. Bannon's attorney told the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday that Bannon would answer questions when he goes to the special counsel because executive privilege would not apply, according to one of the sources.

[Forty Two]

Gosh, you're swimming so hard against the tide there - and it ain't never going to turn.

The tide of what?

Nobody argues that the Russians don't try to interfere with the US. The issue is whether Trump colluded with them improperly. Is there any evidence of that of which you are aware?

Remember when the press was outraged that someone would suggest that Trump had been surveilled by FBI or other agency? He's saying something without evidence! Oh, no! So, what's the evidence of Trump wrongdoing?

If the issue is "they have to do the investigation first..." then why would anyone oppose similar investigations into other persons? Surely, Trump is not the only politician who might have colluded with Russians?