Legal Weed?

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Brian Peacock
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Legal Weed?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:49 pm

Carried on from here.
Cunt wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Cunt wrote:I am not such a big supporter of legalizing weed. I used to be, but recently had my opinion changed by a guy called Hitchins.
Christopher or Peter? And what did they say?
Peter, and the most convincing bit was asking 'who would profit from legalized weed', along with 'who is funding the push to legalize weed'. I don't know the answers, but they are interesting questions.
Yeah, they are pretty interesting questions. I suppose a question like 'Who is profiting from illegal weed?' is part of that as well. Here's PH opposing the motion "This house would legalise cannabis" at a debate in Southampton a couple of months ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M76LEySMxU8

Hitchens at c.23 minutes. His argument: it's illegal but the law is not enforced, so effectively legal, but cannabis is stupifying and users are prone to mental health difficulties. The 'billionaire big dope' lobby are knowingly pushing a harmful substance just like 'big tobacco' have done and continue to do. This lobby are ramping up for marketing and advertising, and in so doing are preparing to cynically abuse the public. If made legal the cannabis lobby would be handed a bona fide motivation to lobby government and donate to political parties etc - thin end of the wedge. Medical use is a red herring. Maintaining the current status quo reduces supply and demand - which is a good thing.

Seems to me that his argument against cannabis could apply equally to alcohol or tobacco.

For my part, I think we each own our own body and therefore carry personal responsibility for what we do with it and what we put in it. Nobody has a problem with this when it comes to alcohol, which despite its potential for harm we are encouraged to partake of responsibly. Hitchens' points about profiteering from intoxicants are valid ones, but he treats cannabis as a special case and thus reduces his point to a rather shakey moral argument about the inherent irresponsibility of doing 'Drugs': Cannabis, a 'Drug' because it is illegal, cannot be taken responsibly precisely because breaking the law to partake is irresponsible - therefore to legalise cannabis would be to encourage irresponsibility in consumers, producers, and retailers. Basically saying that cannabis cannot be legalised because it is illegal, and therefore a bad thing, doesn't really stand up that well - though it's a point he forwards with some force.

I don't do weed btw.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:01 pm

'who would profit from legalized weed' who is funding the push to legalize weed
Ordinary people like you 'n me.

NORML http://norml.org/about

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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:05 pm

Hitchens says the ordinary folk are being manipulated by 'billionaire big dope' who are encouraging one side of the debate to act as a stalking horse for their profit incentive.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:08 pm

Yeah, cause millions of ordinary americans haven't been negatively impacted by prohibition. -nope, it's a conspiracy :yawn:

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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:14 pm

Hitchens says prohibition of harmful stuff is a good thing because it reduces supply and demand. As I said, alcohol could just as easily fit into that 'harmful stuff' category, but I bet he likes a glass of wine with his halibut and a nice single malt before bed. 'Billionaire Big Booze' has a bottle opener to his throat.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:17 pm

:lol:

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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Image
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:33 pm

Did a double take there. First read that as 'Anul Deaths'. :doh:
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by JimC » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:12 pm

A non-commercial option would be to decriminalise the growing of a few plants for private consumption.

You don't need much of a green thumb to grow a year's personal supply, and the spectre of "big business interests" does not apply...
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Cunt » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:56 pm

Our new PM lied to all of us, pre-election, by saying that he would legalize weed. He can't do it, without renegotiating some international treaties. Hell, Holland, the USA and even Australia have not made it legal. Anyway, seeing how the Liberal Party here manipulated people with that lie makes me wonder about a lot more. Booze has crept up in price, steadily, since I began drinking in earnest. Weed is still around the same price-point.

I don't think we need government permission, or Imperial Tobacco, to 'improve' weed quality, access or anything else.

It would be nice to stop seeing people jailed for weed, but those are mostly the poverty-stricken anyway...so they will be jailed for something else, if not weed.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:54 pm

Cunt wrote:Our new PM lied to all of us, pre-election, by saying that he would legalize weed. He can't do it, without renegotiating some international treaties.
The treaty in question presumably being the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs. Almost all UN members have signed it. Renegotiation is not necessarily required.
The Single Convention's penal provisions frequently begin with clauses such as "Subject to its constitutional limitations, each Party shall . . ." Thus, if a nation's constitution prohibited instituting the criminal penalties called for by the Single Convention, those provisions would not be binding on that country.
and
It is unclear whether or not the treaty requires criminalization of drug possession for personal use. The treaty's language is ambiguous, and a ruling by the International Court of Justice would probably be required to settle the matter decisively. However, several commissions have attempted to tackle the question. With the exception of the Le Dain Commission, most have found that states are allowed to legalize possession for personal use.
As for Australia, while Marijuana is indeed illegal, its consumption and growing small amounts of the plant have been decriminalised in South Australia, Western Australia, The Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory. Offenders get the equivalent of parking fines and are likely to be made to attend drug counselling sessions. The offence does not result in a criminal record. Even in the four states, New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria and Tasmania, where both possession and use of cannabis remains a criminal offence in law, police are given discretion to issue cautions (which is what they do most of the time now) rather than to charge offenders with a crime. So, while Marijuana use and small scale cultivation of it is and remains illegal, it has become decriminalised either by law or by practice. It should also be noted that nobody has been gaoled simply for smoking weed in the past three decades or so. Drug use (unlike drug trafficking) has been handled as a health rather than a criminal matter in that time, which in my opinion is as it should be. Treating drug users as criminals is bizarre.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:49 am

"billionaire big dope" lobby... :roll: I see empty rhetoric runs in the family. The obvious difference between cigarettes and dope, not that it should need pointing out, is that one can grow dope easily themselves at home. You don't have to rely on a significant agricultural and manufacturing process.
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:52 am

I question the judgement of those who think that Peter Hitchens is a source of reasonable thought.

"Peter Hitchens: diehard antievolutionist"

"Conservative Peter Hitchens: Gay Marriage 'Is an Attempt to Impose … a New Bigotry' Against Conservatives & Christians"

Like his late brother, he's an overbearing polemicist. The thing is, unlike his brother, pretty much everything he says shows what an astounding asshat he is.

Regarding cannabis, I cannot find the slightest indication that he's qualified in any way to render an opinion on the matter.

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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:02 am

Yes, he certainly came across rather, "Because, that's why" on pot - but he's entitled to his opinion, just like the rest of us.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Legal Weed?

Post by mistermack » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:03 pm

This is a fallacy, the big business bit.
Anyone can grow their own weed. If it's legal, it's going to be free. If you want to make the effort.

Just like wine and beer are nearly free, if you brew your own. And whisky would be too, if stills were legal.

People pay silly money for wine and beer because they are too idle to make their own.
(me included). You pay for the service, that's all.

Cannabis is ridiculously easy to grow. So if it's legal, how are big business going to compete with that?

Peter Hitchens is Britain's biggest cunt by the way, so it's no surprise that cunt can be influenced.
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