Islamic State is the lefts new Palestine?

[JimC]

I suspect they are referring to the actions of US intelligence services in the 1980s to reintroduce the concept of holy way into the 'modern' Islamic tradition in an effort to thwart the Soviet intentions in Afghanistan at the time. It's not conspiracy-level bullshit, it's very well documented and commented on in politico-scholar library.

Sounds like conspiracy theory garbage to me. The Mujahadeen didn't need any religious motivation, all they needed was arms, ammunition and communications equipment, which we gave them. They brought all the religious motivation with them because their religion is a warlike and violent religion whose fundamental principles and beliefs call for killing those who disagree with them...and it always has, since 622 when that cocksucking kiddie-fiddling asswipe Mohammad thought the whole thing up. Just ask anyone who has tried to colonize or occupy Afghanistan since then.

While not disagreeing that Islam has strong tendencies towards violence when dealing with outsiders (and each other), I suspect that the tribal nature of the peoples of Afghanistan and its mountainous geography are important additional factors in the war-like nature of its inhabitants...

[Seth]

I suspect they are referring to the actions of US intelligence services in the 1980s to reintroduce the concept of holy way into the 'modern' Islamic tradition in an effort to thwart the Soviet intentions in Afghanistan at the time. It's not conspiracy-level bullshit, it's very well documented and commented on in politico-scholar library.

Sounds like conspiracy theory garbage to me. The Mujahadeen didn't need any religious motivation, all they needed was arms, ammunition and communications equipment, which we gave them. They brought all the religious motivation with them because their religion is a warlike and violent religion whose fundamental principles and beliefs call for killing those who disagree with them...and it always has, since 622 when that cocksucking kiddie-fiddling asswipe Mohammad thought the whole thing up. Just ask anyone who has tried to colonize or occupy Afghanistan since then.

While not disagreeing that Islam has strong tendencies towards violence when dealing with outsiders (and each other), I suspect that the tribal nature of the peoples of Afghanistan and its mountainous geography are important additional factors in the war-like nature of its inhabitants...

Yes, definitely!

[Sean Hayden]

Mo was a time traveler, nothing else makes sense.

[Scot Dutchy]

Did Mo exist?

[Trinity]

ISIS clowns are misunderstood oppressed victims. If folks would stop oppressing them they'd straighten out.

Some might be.
There are an awful lot of victims of western policy, floating around in the middle east.
The people killed in France are a tiny number, compared to the people killed in Palestine, or Iraq, or Lebanon or Syria etc.
That means that there are an awful lot of people with a legitimate reason to hate the west.
If I was an Iraqi who had lost people dear to me, in actions by western coalitions, then I'd be out for revenge. And I wouldn't much care who I took it out on.

And who killed most of those people in the Middle East, pray tell? Never mind, I'll tell you: Other Muslim Middle-Easterners. Can you say "Sunni" and "Shiite"?

You know all those hundreds of thousands of innocent victims laid at the feet of the US in the Iraq wars? The US didn't kill them, other Arabs killed them.

Those idiot fuckers have been killing each other over which of Mohammad's descendants is the "authorized" descendant of the Prophet since Mohammad died. I just wish they were better at it and would concentrate on killing each other so we wouldn't have to do it.

Assignation of blame is to those who are responsible for the birth and the maintainance of it all as well as to those who actually carry out the physical killing. The Middle Eastern parties may be doing the majority of the physical killing but what is enabling that? Who supplies the weapons? Who funds the supply of weapons? It has recently been made known (Putin's disclosure at the G20 summit) that there are 40 countries (some who are members of the g20) who fund and support IS. It is imbecilic to think that countries which are rabidly critical of terrorism are not complicit in being a player in the game.

[mistermack]

In a big way, Islamic State is actually the new Israel.

Israel set up a religious state, on land belonging to other people, and imported hordes of religious fanatics to live there. But what a difference. Israel has been responsible for horrendous atrocities, but gets hardly any criticism. Mainly because they have influential friends around the world in governments and media.

But Israel and IS are just the same. They have the same aims and the same methods.

[JimC]

Trinity wrote:

Assignation of blame is to those who are responsible for the birth and the maintainance of it all as well as to those who actually carry out the physical killing. The Middle Eastern parties may be doing the majority of the physical killing but what is enabling that? Who supplies the weapons? Who funds the supply of weapons? It has recently been made known (Putin's disclosure at the G20 summit) that there are 40 countries (some who are members of the g20) who fund and support IS. It is imbecilic to think that countries which are rabidly critical of terrorism are not complicit in being a player in the game.

In many cases, the blame should sheet home on the big corporations who manufacture and sell arms to anybody, with no ethical qualms. One could argue that western nations are complicit to some degree in this trade, but in a globalised world, corporations of this nature are increasingly laws unto themselves...

[Trinity]

Trinity wrote:

Assignation of blame is to those who are responsible for the birth and the maintainance of it all as well as to those who actually carry out the physical killing. The Middle Eastern parties may be doing the majority of the physical killing but what is enabling that? Who supplies the weapons? Who funds the supply of weapons? It has recently been made known (Putin's disclosure at the G20 summit) that there are 40 countries (some who are members of the g20) who fund and support IS. It is imbecilic to think that countries which are rabidly critical of terrorism are not complicit in being a player in the game.

In many cases, the blame should sheet home on the big corporations who manufacture and sell arms to anybody, with no ethical qualms. One could argue that western nations are complicit to some degree in this trade, but in a globalised world, corporations of this nature are increasingly laws unto themselves...

I totally agree Jim; I view these corporations as the 'source' of most of the fucked-uppedness in our world today.

[Seth]

ISIS clowns are misunderstood oppressed victims. If folks would stop oppressing them they'd straighten out.

Some might be.
There are an awful lot of victims of western policy, floating around in the middle east.
The people killed in France are a tiny number, compared to the people killed in Palestine, or Iraq, or Lebanon or Syria etc.
That means that there are an awful lot of people with a legitimate reason to hate the west.
If I was an Iraqi who had lost people dear to me, in actions by western coalitions, then I'd be out for revenge. And I wouldn't much care who I took it out on.

And who killed most of those people in the Middle East, pray tell? Never mind, I'll tell you: Other Muslim Middle-Easterners. Can you say "Sunni" and "Shiite"?

You know all those hundreds of thousands of innocent victims laid at the feet of the US in the Iraq wars? The US didn't kill them, other Arabs killed them.

Those idiot fuckers have been killing each other over which of Mohammad's descendants is the "authorized" descendant of the Prophet since Mohammad died. I just wish they were better at it and would concentrate on killing each other so we wouldn't have to do it.

Assignation of blame is to those who are responsible for the birth and the maintainance of it all as well as to those who actually carry out the physical killing. The Middle Eastern parties may be doing the majority of the physical killing but what is enabling that? Who supplies the weapons?

China, Russia, other European arms manufacturers, Egypt, Syria, UAE, Saudi Arabia...anybody who has weapons to sell except the US.

Who funds the supply of weapons?

Syria, ISIS, Egypt, other Muslims, Saudi Arabia, any other middle-east oil producing country other than Israel.

It has recently been made known (Putin's disclosure at the G20 summit) that there are 40 countries (some who are members of the g20) who fund and support IS. It is imbecilic to think that countries which are rabidly critical of terrorism are not complicit in being a player in the game.

And we should believe Putin why, exactly?

[Jason]

Trinity wrote:

Assignation of blame is to those who are responsible for the birth and the maintainance of it all as well as to those who actually carry out the physical killing. The Middle Eastern parties may be doing the majority of the physical killing but what is enabling that? Who supplies the weapons? Who funds the supply of weapons? It has recently been made known (Putin's disclosure at the G20 summit) that there are 40 countries (some who are members of the g20) who fund and support IS. It is imbecilic to think that countries which are rabidly critical of terrorism are not complicit in being a player in the game.

In many cases, the blame should sheet home on the big corporations who manufacture and sell arms to anybody, with no ethical qualms. One could argue that western nations are complicit to some degree in this trade, but in a globalised world, corporations of this nature are increasingly laws unto themselves...

I totally agree Jim; I view these corporations as the 'source' of most of the fucked-uppedness in our world today.

+1

[cronus]

...most military development is state-funded one way or another. By blaming abstract, nebulous corporations you have avoided the need to make a stand on issues in the real world. Can continue futile and pointless 'hacktivsm' for a feelgood buzz...

[Jason]

By working to advance the Chinese initiative of the New Silk Road you're helping to build a new world economy in which the military-industrial complex is all but impotent. I covered that idea not that long ago.

[Hermit]

In many cases, the blame should sheet home on the big corporations who manufacture and sell arms to anybody, with no ethical qualms. One could argue that western nations are complicit to some degree in this trade, but in a globalised world, corporations of this nature are increasingly laws unto themselves...

Yes, corporations go for making profits regardless of the moral implications, but I suspect that you are underestimating the role of governments. In the 1980s Ronald Reagan and the US Congress approved a billiion dollars' worth of weapons, military training to be given the Mujahideen. Guess what the Mujahideen metamorphosed into, and what those weapons and the training finished up being used for? And keep in mind the buying power of a billion dollars 35 years ago.

[JimC]

In many cases, the blame should sheet home on the big corporations who manufacture and sell arms to anybody, with no ethical qualms. One could argue that western nations are complicit to some degree in this trade, but in a globalised world, corporations of this nature are increasingly laws unto themselves...

Yes, corporations go for making profits regardless of the moral implications, but I suspect that you are underestimating the role of governments. In the 1980s Ronald Reagan and the US Congress approved a billiion dollars' worth of weapons, military training to be given the Mujahideen. Guess what the Mujahideen metamorphosed into, and what those weapons and the training finished up being used for? And keep in mind the buying power of a billion dollars 35 years ago.

That was a deliberate choice as part of the cold war struggle against the Soviet Union. One with some unfortunate long-term consequences, but a choice with a political rationale, rather than merely grubby profit making. Whether there is a significant ethical difference involved is an interesting point...

[Trinity]

What I'm seeing here in the UK though, is the government increasingly becoming the (willing) puppets and enablers of the corporations. There is a mutual interest in lining each others' pockets and exchanging favours, no matter what cost (when they can get away with it) to the environment or the public. We lose billions from big corps because of tax evasion and I'm not even going to start ranting about the TTIP which, on the surface, seems to favour the corps more than the governments but as they're all in bed together, I don't think it's worth splitting hairs over.