Galway university society disbanded for homophobic message

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Galway university society disbanded for homophobic message

Post by klr » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:06 pm

This happened on my patch last week:

http://www.thejournal.ie/galway-purity- ... 3-Dec2013/
A STUDENT SOCIETY at NUI Galway has been suspended following complaints about its alleged homophobic activities.

Image

The NUIG Legion of Mary society provoked a strong reaction with a campaign, called the Purity Matters Initiative, which looked to encourage people to “move beyond the confines of the homosexual label”.

The University Societies Coordination Group met on Tuesday to discuss the matter. Following the meeting, the Students’ Union confirmed the society had been suspended.

“NUI Galway is committed to protecting the liberty and equality of all students and does not condone such behaviour,” the university said in a statement.

“”NUI Galway has a pluralist ethos and will not condone the production and dissemination of any material by students which discriminates against other students. Discrimination or implied or direct harassment, on the basis of sexual orientation and/or religion, is contrary to Irish and European law.

“The Vice-President for the Student Experience initiated a process of enquiry to review the actions of the Society in question in the context of the University code of conduct, the University policy on harassment and Irish and European equality law.”

The initial poster, that sparked the controversy, advertised an “interior life of chastity” and called on gay men and women to get to know people who shared their concerns.

The Society has already been removed from the university’s website.
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by JimC » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:24 pm

"I'm the only catholic in the village"

:hehe:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by klr » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:33 pm

That's the general plan. :plot:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by klr » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:37 pm

In other university news, some of our students have been complaining that at least one female invigilator is too attractive ... she seems to be distracting them during their exams. :hehe:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by tattuchu » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:56 pm

I wouldn't mind a little female invigilation right about now :sigh:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by JimC » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:55 am

klr wrote:In other university news, some of our students have been complaining that at least one female invigilator is too attractive ... she seems to be distracting them during their exams. :hehe:
Some of our young female teachers almost manage to distract me from my quadratic equations...
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:22 am

Not long before the SS starts rounding up people who don't happen to favor homosexuality pretty much like the Nazis rounded up homosexuals....

What goes around comes around I guess.
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by JimC » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:50 am

Seth wrote:Not long before the SS starts rounding up people who don't happen to favor homosexuality pretty much like the Nazis rounded up homosexuals....

What goes around comes around I guess.
Seth, I don't think they're quite ready to make it compulsory yet... ;)

I certainly agree that free speech, including saying that being gay is wrong on whatever level, should be protected; certainly in that there should be no danger of being "rounded up", or more prosaically, fined or otherwise subjected to the law.

However, I would imagine that University societies have to sign up to some basic, agreed package of tolerance for ethnic, religious and gender based differences. If a University Atheist society stated that religious people were in need of psychological help and re-programming, I couldn't argue against them being de-listed by the authorities because they had broken their contract with the university...

(even if I may agree with their contention... :biggrin: )
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:54 am

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:Not long before the SS starts rounding up people who don't happen to favor homosexuality pretty much like the Nazis rounded up homosexuals....

What goes around comes around I guess.
Seth, I don't think they're quite ready to make it compulsory yet... ;)

I certainly agree that free speech, including saying that being gay is wrong on whatever level, should be protected; certainly in that there should be no danger of being "rounded up", or more prosaically, fined or otherwise subjected to the law.

However, I would imagine that University societies have to sign up to some basic, agreed package of tolerance for ethnic, religious and gender based differences. If a University Atheist society stated that religious people were in need of psychological help and re-programming, I couldn't argue against them being de-listed by the authorities because they had broken their contract with the university...

(even if I may agree with their contention... :biggrin: )
Well, it's Ireland so who knows what rights they have. In theory, here in the USA, such a condition in the agreement would in and of itself be unlawful because it amounts to content-based discrimination by a public entity (presuming it's a public college not a private one that accepts no federal funds of any kind). The government (at any level) is prohibited from conditioning the exercise of a fundamental right like freedom of speech upon a promise to only speak what is "acceptable" to the government, which is precisely what a contractual restriction such as you mention would be. It's "prior restraint" as well, which is also prohibited.
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by FBM » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:04 am

Homophobia is just a gateway hate. Because of it, now I can't stand bell peppers. :ani:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:11 am

FBM wrote:Homophobia is just a gateway hate. Because of it, now I can't stand bell peppers. :ani:
Thing is, discrimination and intolerance are civil rights so long as their expression doesn't cause or threaten to cause an immediate breach of the peace. Therefore, sanctioning someone for "homophobia" is a violation of their free speech rights (in the US), and, if one uses "homophobia" in it's medical meaning, it might well be a violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) because it's an affliction that affects day to day living.
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:21 am

Seth wrote:
FBM wrote:Homophobia is just a gateway hate. Because of it, now I can't stand bell peppers. :ani:
Thing is, discrimination and intolerance are civil rights so long as their expression doesn't cause or threaten to cause an immediate breach of the peace. Therefore, sanctioning someone for "homophobia" is a violation of their free speech rights (in the US), and, if one uses "homophobia" in it's medical meaning, it might well be a violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) because it's an affliction that affects day to day living.
If one uses "homophobia" in the literal, Greek translation, it is a fear of things that are the same. Personally, I am extremely homophobic when it comes to: X-Factor contestants, daytime soaps, Daily Mail editorials, mormon missionaries, xmas/birthday card poetry, government promises and cheap lager. :tea:
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Seth » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:22 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Seth wrote:
FBM wrote:Homophobia is just a gateway hate. Because of it, now I can't stand bell peppers. :ani:
Thing is, discrimination and intolerance are civil rights so long as their expression doesn't cause or threaten to cause an immediate breach of the peace. Therefore, sanctioning someone for "homophobia" is a violation of their free speech rights (in the US), and, if one uses "homophobia" in it's medical meaning, it might well be a violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) because it's an affliction that affects day to day living.
If one uses "homophobia" in the literal, Greek translation, it is a fear of things that are the same. Personally, I am extremely homophobic when it comes to: X-Factor contestants, daytime soaps, Daily Mail editorials, mormon missionaries, xmas/birthday card poetry, government promises and cheap lager. :tea:
And the thing is you have a right to be phobic about anything you feel phobic about, and you ought to have a right to express that feeling freely and without fear of retribution or sanction by the government for doing so.

Insisting that a homophobe (or someone who simply has moral or religious objections to same-sex sexual behavior, which is not "homophobia" any more than having moral or religious objections to pedophilia is "pedophileopobia"), suppress those opinions does nothing to prevent or counter the feelings or opinions and in fact it probably exacerbates the opinions. I'd rather let homophobes and racists speak their minds freely and openly without fear of government sanction because it's always better to KNOW who they are, so that appropriate social pressure can be put upon them to CHANGE their opinions, than it is to drive them underground, where they may well still work covertly to harm those they hate.

Better the enemy you know than the one you don't.

How would you feel if your government made it a crime for you to express your dislike of "cheap lager" because it "unfairly" discriminates against cheap lager manufacturers? Worse, how would you like it if your government forced you to watch a daily ration of soap-operas and consume a fixed amount of cheap lager (at your expense of course) in order to make it "fair" for soap-opera employees and actors and cheap lager-makers by redistributing your wealth from you to them by force?
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:41 am

Nothing wrong with being scared of gays. Everything wrong with discriminating against gays when it comes to employment, whether or not they can buy from your shop, where they can live, whether they can marry, etc.

Homophobia is the most bodged example of lexogenesis ever! Firstly, "homo" means "the same" and means nothing in the context that it is used here without affixing "sexual"; secondly, it describes prejudicial behaviour, not fear or loathing. It is simply out of kilter with every other "phobia" in the dictionary.
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Re: Galway university society disbanded for homophobic messa

Post by Seth » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:56 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Nothing wrong with being scared of gays. Everything wrong with discriminating against gays when it comes to employment, whether or not they can buy from your shop, where they can live, whether they can marry, etc.


Why? If I'm a private employer who serves a religious community by selling religious supplies it would be harmful to my business to hire a transvestite drag queen as a salesman. The same might apply to less overt examples of "gayness." There's an important distinction to be made here, and that is there is "being homosexual" and "engaging in homosexually-oriented behavior." I agree that it's the right of any person to have a same-sex sexual orientation. That does not mean that everyone else must be required to facilitate same-sex sexual behavior, particularly in the workplace. Being gay is not a choice. Acting gay is a choice. Engaging in homosexual sexual activity is a choice. To be sure, it's my firm opinion that either of the two is well within the rights of every individual and society should have no authority to interfere with either acting gay or engaging in homosexual behavior. But anti-discrimination laws go far beyond mandating tolerance of the peaceable expression of rights of others, whatever those rights are. Anti-discrimination laws infringe upon the rights of individuals to discriminate with respect to with whom they will associate, known in the US as the "Freedom of Association Clause" of the First Amendment. The right to peaceably assemble and associate with those of your choosing carries with it, as the Supreme Court has said, the companion right to not associate or assemble with someone, for any reason or no reason at all.

In short, the First Amendment guarantees a right of an individual to discriminate against other individuals or groups for whatever reasons the individual chooses.

Where the exercise of this right to discriminate begins to conflict with the rights of those who are discriminated against is central to the analysis of whether the discrimination is socially and morally acceptable or not and thus whether or not the discriminatory behavior can be tolerated or must be banned.

We have to begin the analysis with a look at history and how and why anti-discrimination laws came into being in the first place. In the US, these laws have their genesis in the overt and pervasive racial discrimination against blacks (and others, but mostly blacks) in the southern US. In the days before the Civil Rights Act, blacks were excluded from virtually all "places of public accommodation" not specifically designated for their use. This meant in particular eating and lodging places. The discrimination in the south was so pervasive that blacks traveling between states often could not find either accommodations or food on the road. It was so bad that blacks themselves set up networks of guest houses for black travelers so that they would have a place to sleep and somewhere to eat while traveling. It was the interstate nature of the pervasive discrimination that gave the federal government the authority to intervene under it's Commerce Clause authority because discrimination against blacks in the providing of public accommodations definitely affected interstate commerce and movement. The phrase "places of public accommodation" was originally intended to cover primarily restaurants and hotels/motels that catered to interstate travelers, but it was and continues to be expanded to cover virtually any commercial and some private activities.

In the beginning the law was justified by the Congress and the Supreme Court on the argument that the pervasive nature of anti-black discrimination, being so widespread and egregious justified the infringement upon the rights of "public accommodation" owners to freedom of association. The Court found a compelling need to combat the discrimination, and it ruled that the regulation achieved a valid public purpose of protecting a large segment of the public against very real harms, and that the "public accommodation" rule was sufficiently narrow to meet the strict scrutiny standards the law faced because it infringed on First Amendment liberties.

Where the strict scrutiny analysis gets into trouble in re anti-discrimination laws these days is when they intrude on not just the freedom of association rights, but also the free exercise of religion rights.

It's one thing to require an individual engaged in interstate commerce to serve all interstate travelers equally and without regard to their race. It's quite another thing entirely to require an individual engaged in intrastate commerce to facilitate behavior (not status) that the business owner has religious scruples about.

Serving a person of color a sandwich or renting them a bed to sleep in or selling them goods at the same price as they are sold to others is different from requiring an individual to use his or her artistic and creative abilities to facilitate a gay marriage in much the same way that forcing a religious order opposed to contraception or abortion to pay for or provide such devices or services on demand to employees is diametrically opposed to making contraceptives and abortions available to customers from willing sellers at the customer's expense.

Using the example of the wedding-cake maker who was ordered by a judge to create a wedding cake for a gay couple based on anti-discrimination laws, we can examine the nuance at work here.

Consider the distinction between a gay couple walking into a grocery store, or a bakery for that matter, and purchasing a cake off the shelf for use at their nuptial celebration and the same couple going to an artist and demanding that the artist make a painting, or photograph, or cake that serves the gay couple's desire to publicly acknowledge and advertise their sexual orientation.

In the first case the store owner need do nothing other than sell an existing item to a customer without regard to the eventual use or purpose for which the item is bought. If a kinky couple buys whipped cream for a sexual adventure, the store owner is neither privileged to know that nor should the sale be based on his personal objections to kinky sex because the mere purchase of a stock item conveys neither approval nor disapproval of the use of the item.

But in the second case it's not a stock item that's being requested that can be bought by anyone at any time for any reason. Instead it's an artistic work intended to convey a message about the subject of the work. A painting or photograph to symbolize the couple's status and commitment to one another, a cake to celebrate the nature of the relationship. As works of art each requires the input and artistic judgment and abilities of the artist involved, which in and of itself implies an approval of the subject. Would society likewise require a photographer to photograph a child-molester with his victim because it would be discriminating against him based on his sexual orientation? I doubt it.

So when it comes to providing public accommodations that involve the creative efforts of an individual there is an intrusion on the artist's right to free association and free exercise of religion that does not apply with the sale of ordinary consumer goods or the providing of public accommodations because the creation of a work of art implies something about how the artist feels about the subject, and the intrusion on personal beliefs and autonomy is substantially greater.

The same applies in some respects to the renting of housing. The example I like to use is the widowed survivor of a Nazi concentration camp being compelled by anti-discrimination laws to rent the basement apartment in her home to a tattooed, flag-waving, goose-stepping neo-Nazi. There comes a point at which the rights of the provider of a public accommodation must supersede the desires of another individual to make use of that particular person's talents or property.

The basis of racial anti-discrimination laws in the US was the "widespread and pervasive" nature of the discriminatory behavior that effectively inhibited the ability of blacks to travel interstate.

Can we say the same about hiring a wedding photographer or commissioning a wedding cake or renting a home-based apartment?

I don't think so. I'm quite sure there are other cake-makers, photographers and landlords out there who will not have a problem with serving a gay couple, which removes the essential justification for the imposition of the anti-discrimination elements of the Civil Rights Act in the first place. Now if NO photographer or cake-designer anywhere is willing to provide such services, and there are no gay cake bakers or photographers and the inability to find such services becomes both "widespread" and "pervasive" in the US, leading to actual harm and detrimental effects on interstate commerce, then perhaps it might be necessary to regulate further.

But what I see now is the using of anti-discrimination laws not as tools of preventing businesses from refusing to provide services, but rather as offensive weapons against those who are not willing to buy in to the political agenda of gays.

And that's a misuse of the law's purpose and intent.











Homophobia is the most bodged example of lexogenesis ever! Firstly, "homo" means "the same" and means nothing in the context that it is used here without affixing "sexual"; secondly, it describes prejudicial behaviour, not fear or loathing. It is simply out of kilter with every other "phobia" in the dictionary.[/quote]
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