China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60983
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:51 am

This is from an article more widely about Australia trying to balance its relationship with both China and the US. Seems a worrying development. Cause for any concern?
That agreeable illusion has suddenly become much harder to sustain. At the weekend, China declared an ''Air Defence Information Zone'' over a large area of the East China Sea that includes the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands which are claimed by Japan as well as China.

Beijing now demands that all aircraft flying in this area must identify themselves to Chinese military authorities and follow their instructions or face ''defensive emergency measures''. China has no right to demand this over another country's territory, so if Japan submits to China's demands it would, in effect, be abandoning its claim to the islands, which means meekly accepting that China now has the power to push it around.

If Japan defies China's demands it must expect a full-blown air-to-air confrontation with the PLA. America is committed by its alliance to fight alongside Japan if that happens. Both Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hegel have swiftly reaffirmed that commitment since Beijing's declaration.

This is by far the most serious escalation yet of tensions between China and Japan. Without exceptional forbearance and diplomacy a clash will only be avoided if one side or the other is willing to make a humiliating backdown. If a clash happens, the chance of it escalating into a wider China-Japan conflict is very high. The chance then of America being drawn in to support Japan seems very high. And the chance that Australia would be pressed to support America seems very high.

All this poses a very immediate risk. But it also exposes the wishful thinking that guides Australia's long-term policies, because it makes nonsense of the idea that China is not seriously challenging America in Asia. The Chinese understand perfectly well what they are doing. As they increase pressure on Japan, they also increase pressure on America, because if America does not support Japan, its regional leadership is finished.

So as Beijing courts a showdown with Japan, it also is deliberately confronting America. Beijing must presumably assume that, despite its affirmations, Washington would back down rather than risk nuclear war. We don't know whether, if it came to the crunch, it would be proved right or wrong. But either way, the Chinese must know they are running an enormous risk, so there is no mistaking the seriousness of their intention to challenge America in Asia.
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/abbott ... z2liIJUOud
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74306
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by JimC » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:19 am

The South China sea, its islands and mineral resources do seem to be the locus for territorial clashes...

For future historians, the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands may have the same resonance as a certain Arch Duke of the Hapsburg's...

rEv, you're a lot closer to the drifting clouds of fallout that me, mate... :biggrin:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Jason
Destroyer of words
Posts: 17782
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:46 pm
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Jason » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:41 am

I flipped a coin and it came up heads, and I don't have to tell you what that means. Do I?*

*Colbert Report reference

User avatar
DaveDodo007
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:35 am
About me: When ever I behave as a man I am called sexist, It seems being a male is now illegal and nobody sent me the memo. Good job as I would have told them to fuck off.
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:14 am

The Chinese are a very pragmatic race, time means nothing to them. They have the patience of a sai...erm I mean a patient person. They are just letting the USA know of their intent, they with act upon it in maybe three centuries from now. So warn your great, great, great, great, great grand children.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Robert_S » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:12 am

Turks, as a race, are partial to blue. Lavender means nothing to them.

Why do ya gotta put it just that way?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by FBM » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:21 am

Korea's got their own version of it: Outcry as China maps new air defense zone.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:29 am

I think this Chinese Air Defence Zone covers (unoccupied) islands (ok, rocks) that the US administers - booty from WWII. Used as a bombing range until the 70s, supposed to go back to Japan when Uncle Sam had finished with 'em but never did.....so the US has its own dog in this fight.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by FBM » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:32 am

I think China can bet on Korea and Japan not uniting against them. Korea and Japan have their on ongoing and bitter dispute over Dokto/Takeshima, and Korea and China both have gripes about the "comfort women" (read: sex slaves) issue.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:36 am

Aye, the question is, will the US back up its local allies or not? I can't really see it escalating to a hot war but there's $$$ and cheap smart-phones at stake....
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by FBM » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:46 am

Yeah, China has already responded to the US with a polite "STFU." I have a feeling teh gummit will act in WalMart's best interest on this one. :smug:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60983
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:01 am

Robert_S wrote:Turks, as a race, are partial to blue. Lavender means nothing to them.

Why do ya gotta put it just that way?
What?
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by FBM » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:32 am

I think he's pointing out Dave's (apparent) racial stereotyping. If you think Chinese people are patient, try standing in line with them.

Edit: Shit. I just did it, too, didn't I? :fp: We crackers just can't help...nvm.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Robert_S » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:45 am

FBM wrote:I think he's pointing out Dave's (apparent) racial stereotyping. If you think Chinese people are patient, try standing in line with them.

Edit: Shit. I just did it, too, didn't I? :fp: We crackers just can't help...nvm.
It happens from time to time, but I try not to cultivate it in myself nor allow others to do so casually.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60983
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:02 pm

It's not necessarily racial stereotyping. It could be cultural stereotyping. That latter can be reasonably acceptable.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: China v The US. Do we (the world) need to be worried?

Post by Robert_S » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:32 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:It's not necessarily racial stereotyping. It could be cultural stereotyping. That latter can be reasonably acceptable.
Yeah, but when you use the word "race"...
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests