Carrying guns leads to confrontations....

[Tero]

...that would have been avoided.

Do I need examples? Zimmerman. And at least half the gun owners are potentially dangerous.

Prove that they aren't. Including criminals.

This is not a discussion of the law or constitutiion. Merely human failures and stupidity.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...that would have been avoided.

Do I need examples? Zimmerman. And at least half the gun owners are potentially dangerous.

Prove that they aren't. Including criminals.

This is not a discussion of the law or constitutiion. Merely human failures and stupidity.

100% of the gun fans in this house are sane ... ish.

[Gallstones]

Disclaimer: his aim sucks.

[Gallstones]

.

[FBM]

Then blame human stupidity and failure, not the guns. You could pick out any one of a dozen topics and get the same result: cars, alcohol, drugs, spouse/child abuse, the interweebs, food, money...There's no shortage of human stupidity and failure that leads to suffering and death, I think. This just seems to be the hot-button issue at the moment. That doesn't make it any more important or worthy of focus than any of the other things. Stupidity, greed, malice, all those things lead to confrontation; the presence of a gun is incidental.

[Tero]

Yes but the gun in pocket makes the idiot bolder. Very portable and a secret weapon. I say it is not incidental. Seth has numbers to show that more people carrying guns makes the criminal hesitate. The other guy could have a gun. But they could both go the other way, not baring the teeth at the enemy at all. Avoid the conflict.

[macdoc]

You are flat out wrong FBM and the numbers are clear.....this is an American problem - not a human problem. And the American kids suffer for the idiocy in a way no other civilized nation tolerates....

Among the world’s 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids.

The Center also reports that the number of firearm deaths of kids younger than 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined. We average more than 4,000 dead children annually. For comparison, as of last August we had lost 4.680 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan since the wars there began in 2001.

fucked up country

[Robert_S]

Yes but the gun in pocket makes the idiot bolder. Very portable and a secret weapon. I say it is not incidental. Seth has numbers to show that more people carrying guns makes the criminal hesitate. The other guy could have a gun. But they could both go the other way, not baring the teeth at the enemy at all. Avoid the conflict.

There's the thing: what are people doing to avoid conflict?

If I live in a rough neighbourhood and merely taking an evening stroll is likely to lead to conflict, then maybe some of us law abiding citizens should get conceal and carry permits and exercise our rights to an evening stroll.

[Cormac]

...that would have been avoided.

Do I need examples? Zimmerman. And at least half the gun owners are potentially dangerous.

Prove that they aren't. Including criminals.

This is not a discussion of the law or constitutiion. Merely human failures and stupidity.

Hi Tero.

1. You made the assertion, it is for you to provide the evidence.
2. Prove a negative?
3. ALL human beings are "potentially" dangerous.
4. I could kill you as easily with loads of common implements, from a bic biro to a belt. I always wear a belt, and commonly carry a bic biro.

[Cormac]

You are flat out wrong FBM and the numbers are clear.....this is an American problem - not a human problem. And the American kids suffer for the idiocy in a way no other civilized nation tolerates....

Among the world’s 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids.

The Center also reports that the number of firearm deaths of kids younger than 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined. We average more than 4,000 dead children annually. For comparison, as of last August we had lost 4.680 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan since the wars there began in 2001.

fucked up country

Are those raw numbers, or per capita comparisons?

Also, 4,000 out of a population of how many million?

Oh, and these statistics aren't relevant to the topic anyway.

[FBM]

You are flat out wrong FBM...

It wouldn't be the first time. Not even the first time today. I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if I were wrong, I just don't see it as an open-and-shut, black-or-white case. I'm pretty much a moderate wrt gun ownership in the US. *screeeech!* I caught myself writing too much and deleted it. No matter what I say, someone from either extreme usually shits all over my position, anyway.

[JimC]

You are flat out wrong FBM and the numbers are clear.....this is an American problem - not a human problem. And the American kids suffer for the idiocy in a way no other civilized nation tolerates....

Among the world’s 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids.

The Center also reports that the number of firearm deaths of kids younger than 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined. We average more than 4,000 dead children annually. For comparison, as of last August we had lost 4.680 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan since the wars there began in 2001.

fucked up country

Are those raw numbers, or per capita comparisons?

Also, 4,000 out of a population of how many million?

Oh, and these statistics aren't relevant to the topic anyway.

Cormac, you, like me, live in a country where there are very few handguns around, either in the hands of criminals, upright members of society, deranged looneys or citizens who believe in the right to carry guns...

I'm certainly glad of that fact...

Are you?

[Cormac]

You are flat out wrong FBM and the numbers are clear.....this is an American problem - not a human problem. And the American kids suffer for the idiocy in a way no other civilized nation tolerates....

Among the world’s 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids.

The Center also reports that the number of firearm deaths of kids younger than 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined. We average more than 4,000 dead children annually. For comparison, as of last August we had lost 4.680 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan since the wars there began in 2001.

fucked up country

Are those raw numbers, or per capita comparisons?

Also, 4,000 out of a population of how many million?

Oh, and these statistics aren't relevant to the topic anyway.

Cormac, you, like me, live in a country where there are very few handguns around, either in the hands of criminals, upright members of society, deranged looneys or citizens who believe in the right to carry guns...

I'm certainly glad of that fact...

Are you?

Well, that isn't quite right.

There are plenty of guns in this country for any psychopathic arsehole to get his or her hands on. They do get them, and they do use them. (Just this week, two men and a woman were caught in the act of trying to rob a firearm shop (shotguns and rifles) on behalf of one of the dissident Republican groups. Then we have the other criminals - the crime gangs. They're shooting each other day in day out, and also killing innocent people too.

There are severe restrictions on getting guns legally.

So it is a moot point - the loonies have the guns.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Disclaimer: his aim sucks.

And that trigger discipline...

[Tero]

Hi Tero.

1. You made the assertion, it is for you to provide the evidence.
2. Prove a negative?
3. ALL human beings are "potentially" dangerous.
4. I could kill you as easily with loads of common implements, from a bic biro to a belt. I always wear a belt, and commonly carry a bic biro.

There are already tons of pro gun posts here. The argument is that carrying concealed weapons in public leads to less crime. Because the criminal is unsure if you are armed. I'm saying that the gun carrier will behave differently when carrying a gun. They can even lure the criminal into attack, then shoot them at the last second.

It's a great solution to population problems in the slums. Unfortunately, they keep producing more teenage boys to replace the idiots.