From http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 2#p1324352
Suicide.
In most cases the decision to suicide is not impulsive--completing the act, doing it now is.
Most people consider and plan and some rehearse, maybe for months or years first.
I don't think a head shot is the best; to the chest, the heart is better. Less messy too.
Recently a long time family friend, a woman barely 5ft tall, shot herself in the chest with a rifle.
I don't know how she did it because I'm 8 inches taller and I can't position the barrel and reach the trigger on any of mine.
Guns Used.....cont
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Gallstones
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Guns Used.....cont
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Gallstones
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
Is it?Blind groper wrote:http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 7#p1324157
The love of guns is the love of power.
It might just be a love of a tool--like some people love their circular saw and their set of metric wrenches.
Your persistent denial of your hypocrisy is the only nutter religiosity going on here.Blind groper wrote:Even though gun lovers are in denial, (like religious nutters) they are working to a piece of emotional logic.
Emotional logic does not involve guns. It is a statement of a way of thinking. Including guns in the definition of emotional logic makes no sense--is illogical and emotional.Blind groper wrote:The way this emotional logic works is :
- When I hold a gun I feel powerful.
- Therefore I love guns.
- Therefore guns are good.
- Therefore those who oppose gun possession are bad.
Power.
It is a bad thing to want power?
It is a bad thing to seek power?
It is a bad thing to enjoy having power?
Or is it a bad thing to want, seek, enjoy the power of.....having a gun.....over having lots of money.......a fast car........having influence and authority over others.....being an internet forum moderator......life and death?
My emotion is anger at your stubborn insistance that you are better than people like me and know more about my desires and impulses and potential and mental state than those who actually know me in real life based on the irrelevant fact that I love guns.Blind groper wrote:If you look at my signature, you will see the other factor at work. If someone does not want to face the truth - that they are driven by emotion - they rationalise their way around it.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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laklak
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
We had guns for Thanksgiving too! My son in common law brought over a 1944 FEG 37M he just picked up at a gun show. Nice little gun, in .380 ACP. We're hitting the range tomorrow to try it out.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
damn... that's a nice present...
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
Gallstones
Two points.
1. I have never claimed to be better than others.
2. I have never claimed that there is anything wrong with emotion. The problem with gun loving being strongly emotional is the self delusion of gun lovers who refuse to admit this fact to themselves. This is the rationalisation that is going on. Seth, for example, tries to convince us all that he has guns to defend the people's freedom. That is a form of self delusion. His reasons for having guns are purely emotional. In his case, because of the obsessive restating of the largely imaginary 'problem' of someone invading his home, I think fear is a powerful motivator, as well as that feeling of power.
There is nothing wrong with emotions, if we are honest enough to accept our own emotional make up. One of the great joys in my life is the love I have for my wife, and the love she returns to me. Those are powerful emotions, and I openly and gladly admit them. Earlier someone mentioned the love of musical instruments. If that love brings joy, then I am glad for the person blessed with that love.
The love of guns is also wrong when it is tied up with death and misery. If the guns have no use apart from killing humans, as with hand guns, then that love is wrong. If a person is a keen hunter, and puts meat on the table, and loves the rifle that enables him/her to do that, then I am glad for that person's pleasure. But glorifying in weapons that have no purpose other than to kill people is wrong, wrong, wrong!
Two points.
1. I have never claimed to be better than others.
2. I have never claimed that there is anything wrong with emotion. The problem with gun loving being strongly emotional is the self delusion of gun lovers who refuse to admit this fact to themselves. This is the rationalisation that is going on. Seth, for example, tries to convince us all that he has guns to defend the people's freedom. That is a form of self delusion. His reasons for having guns are purely emotional. In his case, because of the obsessive restating of the largely imaginary 'problem' of someone invading his home, I think fear is a powerful motivator, as well as that feeling of power.
There is nothing wrong with emotions, if we are honest enough to accept our own emotional make up. One of the great joys in my life is the love I have for my wife, and the love she returns to me. Those are powerful emotions, and I openly and gladly admit them. Earlier someone mentioned the love of musical instruments. If that love brings joy, then I am glad for the person blessed with that love.
The love of guns is also wrong when it is tied up with death and misery. If the guns have no use apart from killing humans, as with hand guns, then that love is wrong. If a person is a keen hunter, and puts meat on the table, and loves the rifle that enables him/her to do that, then I am glad for that person's pleasure. But glorifying in weapons that have no purpose other than to kill people is wrong, wrong, wrong!
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.
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Gallstones
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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FBM
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
The claim that the decision to commit suicide is most often impulsive:
How, except through self-reports of survivors, would it be possible to know how long a person has been contemplating suicide before they actually do it successfully?
Parsing the data carefully, we can only say reliably that many/most of those who survive a suicide attempt claim that it was an impulsive act.
People commit suicide for a large number of different reasons, I'm sure, but I find it hard to believe that a happy and well-adjusted suddenly gets an impulse kill themselves because of a single bad experience. I'm much more prone to think that those people considered the suicide option for a while under chronically bad and apparently inescapable conditions before one day reaching for a gun or jumping off a building.
I've had one near-suicide experience and it was during such a period as I described above. The situation was bad, chronic and apparently inescapable. After having passing thoughts of the possibility of suicide as a solution, one day I picked up my loaded .44 and thought about how easy it would be. And I pondered it for a while before feeling sure that that wasn't the right solution. I immediately felt relief from the situation and realized how free I was, ie, that the situation wasn't really inescapable.
We should be careful to distinguish between having thoughts about suicide and having a sudden suicidal impulse. If someone's in a bad enough situation long enough, it's a very good bet that they've been thinking about suicide long before they pick up a handgun or jump off a bridge.
How, except through self-reports of survivors, would it be possible to know how long a person has been contemplating suicide before they actually do it successfully?
Parsing the data carefully, we can only say reliably that many/most of those who survive a suicide attempt claim that it was an impulsive act.
People commit suicide for a large number of different reasons, I'm sure, but I find it hard to believe that a happy and well-adjusted suddenly gets an impulse kill themselves because of a single bad experience. I'm much more prone to think that those people considered the suicide option for a while under chronically bad and apparently inescapable conditions before one day reaching for a gun or jumping off a building.
I've had one near-suicide experience and it was during such a period as I described above. The situation was bad, chronic and apparently inescapable. After having passing thoughts of the possibility of suicide as a solution, one day I picked up my loaded .44 and thought about how easy it would be. And I pondered it for a while before feeling sure that that wasn't the right solution. I immediately felt relief from the situation and realized how free I was, ie, that the situation wasn't really inescapable.
We should be careful to distinguish between having thoughts about suicide and having a sudden suicidal impulse. If someone's in a bad enough situation long enough, it's a very good bet that they've been thinking about suicide long before they pick up a handgun or jump off a bridge.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
FBM
There is plenty of opportunity to interview suicide survivors, since most suicide attempts fail. As I pointed out, most American suicide attempts are with drugs or knife. However, most successful attempts are with hand gun.
Certainly those who attempt suicide are unhappy. Else why would they do it. The impulse to suicide is brief and temporary. The unhappiness is normally much longer lasting. But most causes of depression can be overcome in time.
There is plenty of opportunity to interview suicide survivors, since most suicide attempts fail. As I pointed out, most American suicide attempts are with drugs or knife. However, most successful attempts are with hand gun.
Certainly those who attempt suicide are unhappy. Else why would they do it. The impulse to suicide is brief and temporary. The unhappiness is normally much longer lasting. But most causes of depression can be overcome in time.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
Who you calling a cont!Gallstones wrote:Guns Used.....cont
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
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Svartalf
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
Not you, you get called a nugly jackanapes 
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
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aspire1670
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
Yup, you can say what you like right up to the point someone comes along with a bigger gun.Gallstones wrote:
All rights have to be voted on. That's how they become rights.
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FBM
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
When it comes to firearms, I somehow don't think size means as much as you seem to think it does, aspire. 
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Blind groper
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
To FBM
If we are responding to Gallstones post, then it does not matter.
What she posted was a slogan. No more. Not to be taken seriously.
If we are responding to Gallstones post, then it does not matter.
What she posted was a slogan. No more. Not to be taken seriously.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.
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FBM
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
True that. I try not to take very much seriously at all, these days.Blind groper wrote:To FBM
If we are responding to Gallstones post, then it does not matter.
What she posted was a slogan. No more. Not to be taken seriously.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Guns Used.....cont
It's not the availability of firearms that is the issue, it's the availability of idiots.
In the US we have a little something called the constitution. Try reading the second amendment. You arent even from this country so you have no idea what you are talking about. Educate yourself or shut the fuck up.
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed." James Madison
Dear Kenny,
Thank you for your email. It is always nice to hear from someone with a clear and concise point. I assume you know what it was. Keep up the good fight
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