An independent Scotland?

[Rum]

Today Cameron (the UK Prime minister) and Alex Salmond (Scotland's first minister) signed up to an agreement that there will be a referendum about the 'union' as it is called, which binds the two countries. The question will be whether Scotland will leave the union become independent and the bond will be dissolved after over 300 years.

Personally I think it is a totally daft idea, but then I'm not Scottish.

Thoughts?

[klr]

Letting 16- and 17-year olds vote on anything important is a bad idea IMHO. It will almost certainly favour the independence vote though. Cameron got what he wanted as well though - a straight "yes" or "no". Stay put or cold turkey.

Anyway, two years is a long time - a week in politics and all that.

I think it's a dodgy idea as well, at least right now. The defence and currency implications alone will give Salmond enormous headaches.

[redunderthebed]

Scotland's people have a right to decide whether they want union something of which they had no say on in the beginning it took a couple of hundred years but better late than never.

[klr]

Scotland's people have a right to decide whether they want union something of which they had no say on in the beginning it took a couple of hundred years but better late than never.

Why stop there though? All countries are by definition artificial human constructs. I say let the Aboriginals have a vote on whether or not to kick you interlopers out of Australia for good.

[Cormac]

Letting 16- and 17-year olds vote on anything important is a bad idea IMHO. It will almost certainly favour the independence vote though. Cameron got what he wanted as well though - a straight "yes" or "no". Stay put or cold turkey.

Anyway, two years is a long time - a week in politics and all that.

I think it's a dodgy idea as well, at least right now. The defence and currency implications alone will give Salmond enormous headaches.

The SNP is playing a very dangerous game, involving 16 years olds in serious issues such as voting. Teenagers are for political youth wings, the armed forces, and cannon fodder. Not important things like deciding on the future of a country.

Letting people who are in the middle of massive hormonal surges, who live in an extremely deluded state (even more deluded than the "normal" human adult), is not in the slightest bit sensible. Even 18 is possibly too young...

[klr]

Letting 16- and 17-year olds vote on anything important is a bad idea IMHO. It will almost certainly favour the independence vote though. Cameron got what he wanted as well though - a straight "yes" or "no". Stay put or cold turkey.

Anyway, two years is a long time - a week in politics and all that.

I think it's a dodgy idea as well, at least right now. The defence and currency implications alone will give Salmond enormous headaches.

The SNP is playing a very dangerous game, involving 16 years olds in serious issues such as voting. Teenagers are for political youth wings, the armed forces, and cannon fodder. Not important things like deciding on the future of a country.

Letting people who are in the middle of massive hormonal surges, who live in an extremely deluded state (even more deluded than the "normal" human adult), is not in the slightest bit sensible. Even 18 is possibly too young...

That's my feeling as well. The prevailing culture in Scotland, Ireland, and many other countries is to shield teenagers from real responsibility and decision-making. This isn't going to be like voting in X-Factor.

[Cormac]

Letting 16- and 17-year olds vote on anything important is a bad idea IMHO. It will almost certainly favour the independence vote though. Cameron got what he wanted as well though - a straight "yes" or "no". Stay put or cold turkey.

Anyway, two years is a long time - a week in politics and all that.

I think it's a dodgy idea as well, at least right now. The defence and currency implications alone will give Salmond enormous headaches.

The SNP is playing a very dangerous game, involving 16 years olds in serious issues such as voting. Teenagers are for political youth wings, the armed forces, and cannon fodder. Not important things like deciding on the future of a country.

Letting people who are in the middle of massive hormonal surges, who live in an extremely deluded state (even more deluded than the "normal" human adult), is not in the slightest bit sensible. Even 18 is possibly too young...

That's my feeling as well. The prevailing culture in Scotland, Ireland, and many other countries is to shield teenagers from real responsibility and decision-making. This isn't going to be like voting in X-Factor.

I'd go so far as to say that countries that do not so shield them, are making a mistake.

The teenage mind is very fey indeed...

[redunderthebed]

Scotland's people have a right to decide whether they want union something of which they had no say on in the beginning it took a couple of hundred years but better late than never.

Why stop there though? All countries are by definition artificial human constructs. I say let the Aboriginals have a vote on whether or not to kick you interlopers out of Australia for good.

Aboriginals didn't have the european concept of nation-state until we came along and anyway i could easily see a african situation happening the idea that the aboriginals are a homogenous race is relatively new idea and born out of a common sense of being discriminated at best and persecuted at worse and inspired by the civil rights movement in the US and black panthers etc.

Scotland had a strong sense of nation long before the english conquered them.

[klr]

We're getting very conservative in our middle age, aren't we?

But the fact is, we're right.

Anyway, I'm going to enjoy watching Salmond getting skewered on the currency question though. It's going to be a slow burner.

Scotland's people have a right to decide whether they want union something of which they had no say on in the beginning it took a couple of hundred years but better late than never.

Why stop there though? All countries are by definition artificial human constructs. I say let the Aboriginals have a vote on whether or not to kick you interlopers out of Australia for good.

Aboriginals didn't have the european concept of nation-state until we came along and anyway i could easily see a african situation happening the idea that the aboriginals are a homogenous race is relatively new idea and born out of a common sense of being discriminated at best and persecuted at worse and inspired by the civil rights movement in the US and black panthers etc.

Scotland had a strong sense of nation long before the english conquered them.

So, playing the nation state card trumps everything else?

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, don't worry.

[Rum]

Scotland isn't a colony in my view in any sense. They have always had equal representation in Parliament. Given that the population of England should also have a vote!

[klr]

Scotland isn't a colony in my view in any sense. They have always had equal representation in Parliament. Given that the population of England should also have a vote!

Ouch. The West Lothian question strikes again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

[Rum]

Yep. It has always been a fudge that one.

[redunderthebed]

Anyway, I'm going to enjoy watching Salmond getting skewered on the currency question though. It's going to be a slow burner.

Scotland's people have a right to decide whether they want union something of which they had no say on in the beginning it took a couple of hundred years but better late than never.

Why stop there though? All countries are by definition artificial human constructs. I say let the Aboriginals have a vote on whether or not to kick you interlopers out of Australia for good.

Aboriginals didn't have the european concept of nation-state until we came along and anyway i could easily see a african situation happening the idea that the aboriginals are a homogenous race is relatively new idea and born out of a common sense of being discriminated at best and persecuted at worse and inspired by the civil rights movement in the US and black panthers etc.

Scotland had a strong sense of nation long before the english conquered them.

So, playing the nation state card trumps everything else?

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, don't worry.

Meh currency doesn't have to be an issue just adopt the euro piss off the english have a easy solution to the problem.

Nah you cheeky little devil i was just saying that comparing scotland to the plight of the aboriginals is false. The aboriginals need more integration into the country not a seperation thereof although the torres straight islanders of whom have more in common with southern coastal PNG people than mainland aboriginals did attempt in the 80's to declare independence.

[klr]

I say give the English their own parliament, and try to have a vote on independence from the UK before the Scots do.

More seriously, a Scottish "Yes" vote could will have huge ramifications for Northern Ireland, although it would probably still take years to play out.

...
Meh currency doesn't have to be an issue just adopt the euro piss off the english have a easy solution to the problem.
...

The SNP doesn't want an independent Scotland to join the Euro, given its current troubles. But If Scotland gets independence, it must apply to join the EU as a new country, and it will have to use the Euro. It's a condition for any new country joining the EU. The SNP wants to retain the pound Sterling - have a fiscal union with what's left of the UK. That's an odd position for a party looking for independence. All in all, a right mess.

[Rum]

They want to stay with the Bank of England at the moment. Cake and eat it etc..