To the contrary, he's descending to ridicule as an argument. Or did you misspell something?maiforpeace wrote:That's not very descent of you.mistermack wrote: would start with a spelling test.
Like whether the weather be hot, or whether the weather be cold, we'll weather the weather, whatever the weather, whether there's weather or not.
You failed.
US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Social Darwinism derail
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
I have zero doubt that any of the 'studies' that 'prove' racial inferiority will have been concocted by racists trying to prove their point. Superficial differences such as skin color are just that, superficial.maiforpeace wrote:How comforting, knowing you aren't alone in your racist views.Tyrannical wrote:It's genetic.drewish wrote:So don't use IQ. Go find me ANY standardized test that you want and we'll use that. The disagreement is NOT over whether people of African decent are well behind others in regards to intelligence, but rather why. I want the truth, political correctness be damned!
Some of the earliest IQ studies where of Blacks of varying admixture (pure through quadroons) going to an all black school, living in an all black neighborhood. The more white admixture, the closer they were to the white average. The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study should have put the question to rest.
If there was some "magic" social change that could make a difference it would have been found by now after all the money spent and research done.
White supremacist libertarians are just an embarrassment to watch.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
You missed something.Warren Dew wrote:To the contrary, he's descending to ridicule as an argument. Or did you misspell something?maiforpeace wrote:That's not very descent of you.mistermack wrote: would start with a spelling test.
Like whether the weather be hot, or whether the weather be cold, we'll weather the weather, whatever the weather, whether there's weather or not.
You failed.
maiforpeace wrote:That's not very descent of you.mistermack wrote:I would start with a spelling test.Drewish wrote: So don't use IQ. Go find me ANY standardized test that you want and we'll use that. The disagreement is NOT over wether people of African decent are well behind others in regards to intelligence, but rather why. I want the truth, political correctness be damned!
Like whether the weather be hot, or whether the weather be cold, we'll weather the weather, whatever the weather, whether there's weather or not.
You failed.
Atheists have always argued that this world is all that we have, and that our duty is to one another to make the very most and best of it. ~Christopher Hitchens~
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/379 ... 3be9_o.jpg[/imgc]
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/379 ... 3be9_o.jpg[/imgc]
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
I do live in a bubble - having such close contact with this view is more shockingly abhorrent than an embarrassment to me at the moment.amused wrote:I have zero doubt that any of the 'studies' that 'prove' racial inferiority will have been concocted by racists trying to prove their point. Superficial differences such as skin color are just that, superficial.maiforpeace wrote:How comforting, knowing you aren't alone in your racist views.Tyrannical wrote:It's genetic.drewish wrote:So don't use IQ. Go find me ANY standardized test that you want and we'll use that. The disagreement is NOT over whether people of African decent are well behind others in regards to intelligence, but rather why. I want the truth, political correctness be damned!
Some of the earliest IQ studies where of Blacks of varying admixture (pure through quadroons) going to an all black school, living in an all black neighborhood. The more white admixture, the closer they were to the white average. The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study should have put the question to rest.
If there was some "magic" social change that could make a difference it would have been found by now after all the money spent and research done.
White supremacist libertarians are just an embarrassment to watch.
Atheists have always argued that this world is all that we have, and that our duty is to one another to make the very most and best of it. ~Christopher Hitchens~
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/379 ... 3be9_o.jpg[/imgc]
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/379 ... 3be9_o.jpg[/imgc]
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
On the contrary, I was pointing out that claiming IQ tests are a true measure of intelligence is just as ridiculous as claiming that spelling tests are.Warren Dew wrote:To the contrary, he's descending to ridicule as an argument. Or did you misspell something?maiforpeace wrote:That's not very descent of you.mistermack wrote: would start with a spelling test.
Like whether the weather be hot, or whether the weather be cold, we'll weather the weather, whatever the weather, whether there's weather or not.
You failed.
The ridicule isn't an argument, it's there to illustrate the weakness of an argument.
Failing a spelling test doesn't mean you're unintelligent. Nor does getting a low score on an IQ test.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Evolution can be fast when the selection pressure is high. In those areas of the world where completed fertility is in the range of 6, people who are genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids per couple are going to be selected out in a couple of decades.FBM wrote:It might be helpful to distinguish between evolution, a very, very slow process, and social darwinism, which is much closer to what certain racist philosophies describe: http://www.allaboutscience.org/what-is- ... sm-faq.htm
Quite possibly this has already happened to a significant extent within the past century in some places.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Ah, you're right. Serves me right for not reading the posts in order.maiforpeace wrote:You missed something.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
If so, geneticists should easily be able to uncover some evidence for it. I haven't seen any such evidence, and until I do I don't see any reason to consider such talk as anachronistic expressions of social darwinism by people who haven't yet heard that it's a failed theory.Warren Dew wrote:Evolution can be fast when the selection pressure is high. In those areas of the world where completed fertility is in the range of 6, people who are genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids per couple are going to be selected out in a couple of decades.FBM wrote:It might be helpful to distinguish between evolution, a very, very slow process, and social darwinism, which is much closer to what certain racist philosophies describe: http://www.allaboutscience.org/what-is- ... sm-faq.htm
Quite possibly this has already happened to a significant extent within the past century in some places.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
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"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Speaking of embarrassment, do you ever read what you write?amused wrote:I have zero doubt that any of the 'studies' that 'prove' racial inferiority will have been concocted by racists trying to prove their point. Superficial differences such as skin color are just that, superficial.maiforpeace wrote:How comforting, knowing you aren't alone in your racist views.Tyrannical wrote:It's genetic.drewish wrote:So don't use IQ. Go find me ANY standardized test that you want and we'll use that. The disagreement is NOT over whether people of African decent are well behind others in regards to intelligence, but rather why. I want the truth, political correctness be damned!
Some of the earliest IQ studies where of Blacks of varying admixture (pure through quadroons) going to an all black school, living in an all black neighborhood. The more white admixture, the closer they were to the white average. The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study should have put the question to rest.
If there was some "magic" social change that could make a difference it would have been found by now after all the money spent and research done.
White supremacist libertarians are just an embarrassment to watch.
You demonstrate no concept of evolutionary inheritance, and repeat the tired old canard that IQ is merely related to skin color. Why don't you do everyone a favor and at least do some cursory research into the subject so that your ignorance is not so glaring.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
How on earth can you be genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids?Warren Dew wrote:FBM wrote: In those areas of the world where completed fertility is in the range of 6, people who are genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids per couple are going to be selected out in a couple of decades.
Socially predisposed, yes, but GENETICALLY?
How come our genes are so different to those of our ancestors from 200 years ago, in that case?
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Intelligence is the culmination of multiple genes and their expressions, there is no single gene that determines intelligence. But give it a few more decades of genetic research and we'll probably have a scientific answer on why some humans are smarter than others. Then we just need statistic.FBM wrote:If so, geneticists should easily be able to uncover some evidence for it. I haven't seen any such evidence, and until I do I don't see any reason to consider such talk as anachronistic expressions of social Darwinism by people who haven't yet heard that it's a failed theory.Warren Dew wrote:Evolution can be fast when the selection pressure is high. In those areas of the world where completed fertility is in the range of 6, people who are genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids per couple are going to be selected out in a couple of decades.FBM wrote:It might be helpful to distinguish between evolution, a very, very slow process, and social darwinism, which is much closer to what certain racist philosophies describe: http://www.allaboutscience.org/what-is- ... sm-faq.htm
Quite possibly this has already happened to a significant extent within the past century in some places.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Because genes both dictate fertility and behavior. Do you even believe in or understand evolutionmistermack wrote:How on earth can you be genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids?Warren Dew wrote:FBM wrote: In those areas of the world where completed fertility is in the range of 6, people who are genetically predisposed to stick to 2 kids per couple are going to be selected out in a couple of decades.
Socially predisposed, yes, but GENETICALLY?
How come our genes are so different to those of our ancestors from 200 years ago, in that case?
Last edited by Tyrannical on Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
That fails to explain the German children of American GIs study that showed that children of black American GIs in the postwar period had the same average IQ as children of white American GIs. To me, when you combine that result with the Minnesota twins study, the conclusion has to be that it's cultural expectations that are driving the IQ differences.Tyrannical wrote:It's genetic.
Some of the earliest IQ studies where of Blacks of varying admixture (pure through quadroons) going to an all black school, living in an all black neighborhood. The more white admixture, the closer they were to the white average. The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study should have put the question to rest.
Not that that changes drewish's concerns. The fact that people on welfare have more children than people who work to support themselves is still a problem. Of course, that problem has an easy fix: change the welfare system so it doesn't inentivize having frequent children, and change the tax system so it doesn't penalize children in working households.
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Oversimplification, I think. Genetics isn't the only determiner of intelligence. Nutrition and environmental factors weigh heavily on a population's average intelligence. Furthermore, cultural factors weigh even more heavily on a group's average performance on standardized IQ tests. Such tests made by Western standards and based on Western culture would be alien and incomprehensible to distant groups for reasons other than intelligence.
To wit, aborigines in various countries know the names and various properties of thousands of plants and animals, as well as their seasonal behaviors. A Western person would struggle to approach what they would consider even rudimentary mastery of such information. I don't see any innate lack of intelligence in such cultures or peoples.
To wit, aborigines in various countries know the names and various properties of thousands of plants and animals, as well as their seasonal behaviors. A Western person would struggle to approach what they would consider even rudimentary mastery of such information. I don't see any innate lack of intelligence in such cultures or peoples.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions
Well, I'd like to see that study. I assume they have IQ results for the parents? The military in the US has long done competency testing, so this result may be just the result of eliminating the low IQ blacks.Warren Dew wrote:That fails to explain the German children of American GIs study that showed that children of black American GIs in the postwar period had the same average IQ as children of white American GIs. To me, when you combine that result with the Minnesota twins study, the conclusion has to be that it's cultural expectations that are driving the IQ differences.Tyrannical wrote:It's genetic.
Some of the earliest IQ studies where of Blacks of varying admixture (pure through quadroons) going to an all black school, living in an all black neighborhood. The more white admixture, the closer they were to the white average. The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study should have put the question to rest.
Not that that changes drewish's concerns. The fact that people on welfare have more children than people who work to support themselves is still a problem. Of course, that problem has an easy fix: change the welfare system so it doesn't inentivize having frequent children, and change the tax system so it doesn't penalize children in working households.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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