Obama haters raising hell over 500 million

[Tero]

The transfers also allow the IRS to make the healthcare law a smaller part of its public budget figures. For example, the tax agency requested $8 million next year to implement the individual mandate, and said the money would not pay for any new employees.

An IRS spokeswoman would not say how much money has been spent so far implementing the individual mandate.

Republicans charged during the legislative debate over healthcare that the IRS would be hiring hundreds of new agents to enforce the mandate and throwing people in jail because they don’t have insurance.

However, the mandate is just one part of the IRS’s responsibilities.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/he ... health-law

I don't know how to read this. It looks like blogging. How much of this is just made up?

[Tero]

This was the only major paper carrying the story as a blog
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... my-of-1054

[FBM]

Sorry to ask a stupid question, Tero, but I haven't had time to keep up with this story very closely. The individual mandate is the part that requires everyone to have health insurance, is that right? And the Supreme Court is in the process of ruling on its consitutionality? If so, I'm a little iffy on the mandate, but I think the health care reform package is a badly needed step in the right direction.

[Tero]

I think the IRS is to deal with the special tanning salon tax and then to help set up health care exchanges. Since there is no Obamacare department, they are doing this with departments they have set up, like HHS and IRS. Right wingers assume it is in order to throw you in jail for not following individual mandate. Of course, some department has to collect the fine for not guying insurance, if the law were to stand.

[Tero]

Another blogger thinks IRS is set out to deny legitimate claims
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... e-tax-cod/

[Coito ergo sum]

The idea is that the mandate requires that everyone buy health insurance.

If you don't buy health insurance, then you will be assessed a penalty by the IRS. If you don't pay the penalty, then you get enforcement action against you by the IRS, which can ultimately include liens, levies, seizing of assets/bank accounts, and even criminal penalties.

The last stats I read were that insurance is estimated by the proponents of the plan to cost about 15% give or take of gross income. Assistance will be given at some point, I recall it was somewhere around $40,000 or $44,000 in income for an individual. Below that and you get some assistance on a sliding scale upward as your income goes down. Over that, and you're on your won. Be ready to pay $8000 to $12,000 per year for insurance. Unless, of course, you were one of the ones who already had insurance through an employer, however, there are incentives built into Obamacare that put financial pressure on employers to discontinue the plans or to require larger contributions than they already do by employees.

Enjoy!

[FBM]

I would enjoy the living shit out of that, as a matter of fact. Being uninsurable, like so many other US citizens under the present "system", is one thing that keeps me overseas.

[Tero]

12 000 a year for insurance for how many?

Policians vetoed a single payer system, so this is what you get. The insurance companies tweaked obamacare.

[Coito ergo sum]

12 000 a year for insurance for how many?

Policians vetoed a single payer system, so this is what you get. The insurance companies tweaked obamacare.

It depends on the kind of policy. The estimates when Obamacare was passing was some percentage of gross income - something like 10 to 15%.

A single payer doesn't mean people don't pay for insurance. It just means that the healthcare is paid through more taxes. So, you're still going to have to increase people's taxes by X%. You could always make anyone making less than $50,000 a year to pay nothing extra for the health care, but that would mean that like 40% of the population would pay 100% of the healthcare bill. So much for the idea that "freeloaders" should pay their share.

[FBM]

Is it actually true, though, that anyone making less than 50k/yr gets a free ride? If not, that's a meaningless and misleading statement.

[Coito ergo sum]

Is it actually true, though, that anyone making less than 50k/yr gets a free ride? If not, that's a meaningless and misleading statement.

No, that isn't what I was trying to assert.

I was referring to the fact that Obamacare forces people to buy insurance, and if they make something less than about $40,000 a year, then they have to pay full freight, without any government assistance. Some assistance I think is supposed to be available on a sliding scale, a little bit for those making in the 30k's and more for those in the 20s. The problem is the price -- in that people making $40k to $50k range are going to be asked to pay 10-15% or so for health insurance. That's huge for someone making that kind of money. They get no help. They have to pay and they have to buy, or they get an IRS penalty and the IRS will come down on them if they don't pay the penalty.

The alternative mentioned was to just have a single payer. I said that that doesn't address the problem of cost, because it means that taxes have to be raised to pay for all the healthcare. That will mean a combination of huge tax increases and a reduction in available services. It has to. There is no way to do it otherwise.

So what would you do with people who couldn't stand a 10-15% tax increase, because they're only making $30k, $40k or $50k. What do we do? Raise their taxes? Or, make 40-50% of the population pay it for them? That was my point.

My freeloader comment was a reference to the Obama administration saying that their plan was designed to make everyone pay when now we have freeloaders. Well, if you're going to make everyone pay, then I guess everyone would get to pay 10%-15% of their gross, no matter what income level. If you let some off the hook, then you have different freeloaders.

[FBM]

Only making $30~50k/yr? So, like, they might have to wait another 3~4 months before upgrading their luxury sedan/Hummer/vacation house/swimming pool? Yeah, that's a way unreasonable burden on them, just to maintain the blue-collar workers' ability to manufacture widgets.

[Coito ergo sum]

Only making $30~50k/yr? So, like, they might have to wait another 3~4 months before upgrading their luxury sedan/Hummer/vacation house/swimming pool? Yeah, that's a way unreasonable burden on them, just to maintain the blue-collar workers' ability to manufacture widgets.

What's the burden you're suggesting they take on? $5000 a year? $7500? What, in addition to what they're already paying, will you generously suggest they pay?

[FBM]

Those people already have health insurance.

Edit: Wait. You mean in additional taxes?

[Coito ergo sum]

Those people already have health insurance.

They do? Then why do we have to make them buy insurance?

As it happens: Almost 18 million of the uninsured make more than $50,000 a year. And almost 10 million of them have an income of more than $75,000 a year. 10 million are illegal aliens. About 14 million qualify for government programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP, but aren't enrolled. http://www.pacificresearch.org/docLib/2 ... _Myths.pdf

Can't we then just raise the government assistance/Medicaid limit to cover the people who are having a hard time affording insurance, are legally here and don't already qualify? I mean - why create this monumental Obamacare system when we know we don't need to help people making over $40,000 a year - as you implied in your post - and most everyone else is either insured already or qualifies for government coverage? Why not just help those making between $25,000 and $35,000 a year and call it a day?