Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

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Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Strontium Dog » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16454102
Labour has called for "more responsible and better capitalism"...
But just how much better do they think it can get?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16450526
Groceries today cost one-thirteenth of what they did 150 years ago, according to a study from The Grocer magazine.

The weekly basket of food, drink and household items priced at £93.95 now would have cost an 1862 shopper £1,254.17 in real terms.
Three cheers for our imperfect capitalism and the wondrous bounties it has brought us at rock-bottom prices! :cheer:
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:27 pm

:yawn:
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Strontium Dog » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:37 pm

Cuba is that way

<-----------------
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:01 pm

:yawn:
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by John_fi_Skye » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 pm

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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by mistermack » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:00 am

That "Grocer" article is complete bollocks.

How can you compare eras like that? How can you compare the price of grapes, when there was no way of refrigerating them and flying them around the world, like we do now? No refrigerated giant container ships?

People in those days simply didn't eat those items. Even basic things like the price of bread are affected by the technology, and the fossil fuels that enable bulk transport.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:01 am

Strontium Dog wrote: Three cheers for our imperfect capitalism and the wondrous bounties it has brought us at rock-bottom prices! :cheer:
Why do you assume it's capitalism that's made that difference?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:30 am

I agree correlation is not causation, but so many of the places that have abandoned capitalism (Mengistu's Ethiopia, Castro's Cuba, Mugabe's Zimbabwe, the USSR etc) have had trouble feeding their people.

Bear in mind there is a mischievous wink in my eye with this thread, a serious point but I'm over-egging it.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Seth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:45 am

mistermack wrote:That "Grocer" article is complete bollocks.

How can you compare eras like that? How can you compare the price of grapes, when there was no way of refrigerating them and flying them around the world, like we do now? No refrigerated giant container ships?

People in those days simply didn't eat those items. Even basic things like the price of bread are affected by the technology, and the fossil fuels that enable bulk transport.
Er, the Romans used grapes rather a lot I believe.

Besides, all that technology is capitalism in action. The economies of scale are served by technology which lowers the per-unit labor input and cost, which lowers the end price.

It took days or weeks for one man to plow 40 acres with a mule and a plow, plant by hand, tend and harvest by hand and transport by horse cart. The same time-value of labor now yields hundreds or thousands of acres planted, tended, harvested and transported by the same single individual.

I don't know the exact figures, but never before in the history of mankind has a single acre of cropland been so productive.

That's capitalism at work.

So, the article is correct.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Seth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:48 am

Psychoserenity wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote: Three cheers for our imperfect capitalism and the wondrous bounties it has brought us at rock-bottom prices! :cheer:
Why do you assume it's capitalism that's made that difference?
Because it sure as fuck wasn't socialism that did it, and capitalism is the only other game in town.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by MrJonno » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:34 am

Yes capitalism brought about 20-35 days paid holiday, maximum working hours , maternity/paternity leave, sick pay health and safety regulations, union representation and a decent health care for all. Ie all the things that make life worth living.

Or perhaps not
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:41 am

No it did. Capitalism is competitiveness, when there was, as Seth pointed out another game in town, it had to up its special offers, once the other game started to fall apart in the Eastern Bloc, Capitalism had little competition and thus all those special offers are no longer required.

Everyone seems to think Capitalism is failing. But it seems to me what they mean is it's failing them. For those invested in that game, winning has never been so lucrative.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:49 am

Capitalism? It's all been downhill since the Factories Act of 1802.
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:23 pm

Audley Strange wrote:...Everyone seems to think Capitalism is failing. But it seems to me what they mean is it's failing them...
Is that not the most important measure? :dunno: How many people must Capitalism be failing before it can be declared "not for for purpose"?
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Re: Labour Party calls for "better capitalism"

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:29 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:...Everyone seems to think Capitalism is failing. But it seems to me what they mean is it's failing them...
Is that not the most important measure? :dunno: How many people must Capitalism be failing before it can be declared "not for for purpose"?
Depressingly, only those still in the game seem to have a say on that.
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