Another fucking plane crash? Really?

[Cunt]

So my teeny city just had it's second fatal plane crash in about a month.

There was another flight from here that didn't make it to Resolute Bay.

I have never been affected by one before, but twice to be so close is more than a bit bothersome. I knew some victims of the first crash, and know a big chunk of the aviation community up here. Including a pilot, of this exact type (twin otter). I found out that he wasn't flying this one, but it is only partly good news because that just means someone else was. Actually, in the video, at about 1:20, you can hear someone say 'I didn't see Keiths' truck at the base' (or something close to that) and Keith is the fellow I first thought of.

I guess I am assuming the two folks up front were the two fatalities. The flight deck sure was small. Looks like it might have hit nose-first.

One regular guy I know was pretty much instantly helping the survivors get out of the wreckage, so the story says. (sounds like him...always treated me pretty well) The crash took place across the street from a cafe or something...near his home and work.

Oh, and to top it off, there is a forest fire reported about 15k from town. And it is windy.

[Seth]

Completely off-topic, it happens that my mother was conceived on the shores of the Great Slave Lake in 1924, and my grandmother was the first white woman seen by the tribe my grandfather visited while on a hunting expedition with my grandmother.

[Cunt]

Fuck you must be older than dirt.

The southern media reports that the two who perished were crew.

How fast can a forest fire travel on a breezy (10mph) night?

[Seth]

Fuck you must be older than dirt.

Not quite. But sometimes it feels that way.

The southern media reports that the two who perished were crew.

That's really sad. I always wanted to fly an Otter (or own one). Never got the chance before the diabetes hit and I lost my medical.

How fast can a forest fire travel on a breezy (10mph) night?

Generally, <10 mph. However, if the fire "spots" ahead (through ember dispersal), which is common, it can leap up to five miles at a jump, at whatever the wind speed is, although it then takes a little while for the new spot fire to get established and rolling. Spotting is why wildfire fighting is so fucking dangerous. You an be in a perfect position to cut line, with escape routes and everything, and the next thing you know the fire's spotted behind you and cut off your escape route, and you're well and truly fucked. Eventually you may have to take out your "shake and bake" personal fire shelter and hope for the best, which doesn't usually happen.

The other problem is that as the fire grows, it can generate its own weather and winds, and it can spread in unpredictable directions through spotting.

If it's anywhere close and you're in a rural area with minimal fire protection, you'd better pack your car with essentials and irreplaceable valuables and be ready to haul ass if the police come with an evacuation order.

[Cunt]

It's a city, and I think I would stay and fight, though I would send my belongings out too...have to see how things go by morning.

[Seth]

It's a city, and I think I would stay and fight, though I would send my belongings out too...have to see how things go by morning.

Shouldn't be much worry in a city, there's likely adequate fire protection, although if you live on the outskirts, or the fire gets really close and you have a wood roof or vegetation or stacked wood close to your house, it might be a good time to wet it down to prevent spot fires. A sprinkler on the roof will generally cover that bet, and clearing any long vegetation or ladder fuels to trees near your house is a good idea.

Having a "defensible space" around your house is worth establishing, even in a city, as anyone living in the hills of LA will tell you. Most residential fires in towns and cities caused by forest or brush fires result from a) wood roofs, b) leaf litter and other combustibles on the roof, in the gutters, or around the house which can ladder fire to the structure, c) combustible vegetation within 35 feet of the house, d) trees, especially conifers, positioned around the house that will ladder fire to the house if they crown-out, and e) direct radiative combustion of the structure caused by nearby heavy flame.

Your greatest danger is flying embers landing on something that will catch on fire and then run to the house, or a neighbor's house being on fire and spreading to yours.

Also, if fire is near, take down curtains, which can be ignited INSIDE the house by direct radiation from a close, hot fire, and be prepared to wet down fabrics or other combustibles INSIDE the windows, which may also break.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

Generally, <10 mph. However, if the fire "spots" ahead (through ember dispersal), which is common, it can leap up to five miles at a jump, at whatever the wind speed is, although it then takes a little while for the new spot fire to get established and rolling. Spotting is why wildfire fighting is so fucking dangerous. You an be in a perfect position to cut line, with escape routes and everything, and the next thing you know the fire's spotted behind you and cut off your escape route, and you're well and truly fucked. Eventually you may have to take out your "shake and bake" personal fire shelter and hope for the best, which doesn't usually happen.

Spotting is the main threat in our bushfire days too, particularly when a strong, hot, dry Northerly is blowing...

Cunt - sorry about the loss to your small community, mate...

[Cunt]

I can't clear 35 feet around the house, but I can clear some...I doubt the problem will be anywhere near my house before much worse things happen (the airport and hospital, f'rinstance...)

I am pretty happy I decided against keeping pressurized gases around for welding.

Thanks, JimC

[Seth]

I can't clear 35 feet around the house, but I can clear some...I doubt the problem will be anywhere near my house before much worse things happen (the airport and hospital, f'rinstance...)

I am pretty happy I decided against keeping pressurized gases around for welding.

Thanks, JimC

Thirty-five feet is the general minimum recommendation for rural homes among the trees. It goes up to more than 100 feet if your home is in heavy timber. This is to minimize radiative ignition. In crown fires in heavy timber, flame lengths can exceed 300 feet and you're just screwed if your house is made out of wood, but it doesn't sound to me like that's the issue with you. The most important thing is that you clear combustibles away from the walls of the house and eliminate pockets of combustibles in corners, like under eaves, on or under decks or anywhere an ember might land and ignite surrounding materials. Grass should be cut as low as possible near the house, and a gravel barrier three feet wide is helpful there.

The other thing you might do as a longer-term plan is to procure a sufficient amount of 1 or 1.5 inch fire hose to reach from the nearest fire hydrant to your house, along with adapters, a nozzle and a hydrant wrench, and keep them where you can get to them easily.

On my ranch I had a complete "fire wagon" setup with 500 gallon bladder tank, fire-rated high-pressure pump and more than 1000 feet of 1 and 1.5 inch hose that I used regularly for burning ditches and fields, but also had available for wildfire use. I also had a 1000 gallon cistern on the water system for the house with a draw-tube built in so that either I, or the fire department could have an emergency water reserve handy.

[Cunt]

Thanks, Seth. I am having a tough time getting information out of the police, and ENR are a bit busy. Radio station hasn't heard anything about an evacuation, though.

The nice thing about this is that it has my sweetheart and I talking about what to bring if we have to leave RIGHT NOW. For me, it's basically dogs, data and survival gear. For her, mostly the same with a few small momentos tossed in.

I think getting enough fire hose to service my home (which is a trailer, by the way...fucking near all of Yellowknife is a trailer park) is a bit excessive, but I would only need about 40 or 50 meters...I might just do it for fun.

Our roof is tin, our cumbustibles are, for the most part, away from the house as much as can be. There was a toxic waste 'amnesty' at the dump recently, and when we went through our home and shed, we had nothing to get rid of. Here is another excellent reason to keep it pretty clean. No unnecessary fuels lying around. (though all the machines have full tanks...that is necessary)

[Seth]

Thanks, Seth. I am having a tough time getting information out of the police, and ENR are a bit busy. Radio station hasn't heard anything about an evacuation, though.

Glad to hear it. The closest I ever got to Yellowknife was on the Canol Road, about 100 mile NE of the NWT/Yukon border, back in 1996. I was on a trip to Alaska with a bunch of Hummer owners when the leader got gold fever and became obsessed with getting to Chicken, Alaska, to pan for gold. We were driving 16 hours a day and I ran out of steam at Ross River and told him I had to sleep. He wouldn't hear it and kept on going, but two other owners and I stayed in Ross River and then decided to explore the Canol Road. One of the guys and his son had hiked the road from Ross River to the McKenzie River, (I think) near Norman Wells some years earlier, and thought we might make a good dent in the 500+ mile road. We got farther than anyone had been since probably the 1950s in vehicles, but turned back when one vehicle started to have mechanical problems.

The nice thing about this is that it has my sweetheart and I talking about what to bring if we have to leave RIGHT NOW. For me, it's basically dogs, data and survival gear. For her, mostly the same with a few small momentos tossed in.

Having a "bug out bag" is always a good idea.

I think getting enough fire hose to service my home (which is a trailer, by the way...fucking near all of Yellowknife is a trailer park) is a bit excessive, but I would only need about 40 or 50 meters...I might just do it for fun.

Down here, 100 feet of 1 inch hose costs about $125, and 1.5 is close to $200. Nozzles can be cheap (plastic) or really expensive (fire service rated adjustable) and adapters are pricey, but you should only need a couple.

Best bet would be to have 1.5 inch hose and hydrant adapter and wrench, and a shutoff reducing wye that goes from 1.5 (female) to two 1 inch male couplings, enough 1.5 hose to get to your property line, and enough 1 inch hose, with two brush nozzles or two adjustable (fan to stream) nozzles in the 20gpm range, to lay hose on either side of your trailer and cover all approaches. Put it all in a little cart that's kept in a small shed AWAY from the home, laid "backwards" so that you can pull the cart to the hydrant, hook up the 1.5 inch and then run towards your house as the hose lays itself out. When you hit the wye, you each grab a nozzle on the 1 inch and run around opposite sides of the house and your hose lay is in place. Then you check the shutoff wye to be sure it's closed on both 1 inch lines, then SLOWLY charge the main line by opening the hydrant SLOWLY. Once the 1.5 is charged, you wait till you need to charge the 1 inch lines so that if you need to reposition them they are still empty and easy to move. Total cost would probably be under a thousand bucks, and depending on how reliable your fire department is, may be worth doing, especially if you live in a trailer, which if it lights up, will burn in a matter of minutes. Being able to lay your own hose and knock down a trailer fire, not to mention protect your boundaries, in two minutes or less (with some practice) might give you some peace of mind.

Our roof is tin, our cumbustibles are, for the most part, away from the house as much as can be. There was a toxic waste 'amnesty' at the dump recently, and when we went through our home and shed, we had nothing to get rid of. Here is another excellent reason to keep it pretty clean. No unnecessary fuels lying around. (though all the machines have full tanks...that is necessary)

Check your trees and shrubs, if any, to be sure they don't overhang, and trim low branches on trees to keep a grass fire from laddering up the tree. Clear branches for at least 6 to 8 feet from the ground, particularly all low "sweepers."

Best of luck, keep us informed. If you post some exterior photos of your surroundings, I might be able to give you some specific recommendations.

Also, talk to your neighbors and get them to cooperate in a wildfire mitigation plan.

[Cunt]

The neighbours are a good place to start. I am right now looking at one about 10 meters away who has birches overhaniging her shingle rood and my fence. The rear neighbour hasn't touched his back fence area in years and there is a fire-hazard bunch of brush there.

Our fire department is pretty good. Whenever there is a house fire, they come soak the ashes.

All joking aside, they responded to the plane crash as fast as could be expected, and seven of the nine people on that flight survived (so far)

[Seth]

This about the OP:

Business Plane Crash in Canada Almost Wipes Out Key Rare Earth Metals Company

* Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:48pm by Becket Adams Becket Adams

A plane wreck in Canada could have had a seriously harmful impact on the development of rare earth metals in North America. The good news is that this appears to be a near miss. The terribly sad news is that there were fatalities.

Avalon Rare Metals Inc. has taken a temporary blow in its management ranks. The Canadian-based company has issued a release stating that three of its staff and four visitors were injured in the crash of Arctic Sunwest’s Twin Otter floatplane in Yellowknife on Thursday. The charter plane was flying back from Avalon’s Thor Lake exploration camp when it crashed into Yellowknife’s Old Town neighborhood.

The three company employees are all senior executives: Brian Chandler, Chief Operating Officer; David Swisher, Vice President Operations; and Kelly Cumming, Northern Relations Manager.

The release also lists “four other visitors” and says that the group was returning from a tour of Avalon’s Nechalacho Rare Earth Deposit located about 60 miles east of Yellowknife. Fortunately, “All seven passengers were injured during the crash, but none of the injuries are life-threatening.”

Tragically, the two pilots were killed in the crash.

Avalon stated that it has no information on the circumstances surrounding the crash and that the crash is under investigation by aviation authorities.

In America (where a great deal of Avalon’s business takes place), shares of Avalon Rare Metals were down just over 2 percent at $2.86 and the stock hit a new 52-week low today. The new 52-week trading range is $2.80 to $10.11.

Aviation wrecks have gutted companies before. While it it tragic that the two pilot’s lost their lives, one can be grateful that it was not worse. This looks to be one of those rare cases that were a near miss for Avalon and its senior management.

Read The Globe and Mail’s updated report of the accident.

[charlou]

Sad news, cunt .... when it's people from your own community, even if you don't know them, it does tend to bring such a loss closer to home in all senses of the phrase.

I hope the fire is contained soon.

[Feck]

Best of luck Cunt ,be safe .