NKorea split : Would the use of nuclear weapons mean WW3?

[Rum]

Alarmingly for me at any rate is the possibility that the use of nuclear weapons might not actually trigger 'WW3' any more and the old and crazy logic of MAD (mutually assured destruction) may no longer apply. It was almost guaranteed to in the Cold War era, but now it is far less certain that it would, for good or ill.

I suspect it does mean their use is more likely and I suspect we will see an exchange or at the very least their use in some way as a weapon in the next 10 or 15 years. Is this better or worse than MAD I wonder?..

[PsychoSerenity]

I don't know, but I really hope I don't have to see it. All war is horrific but the idea of nukes really messes with my head.

[Rum]

I don't know, but I really hope I don't have to see it. All war is horrific but the idea of nukes really messes with my head.

I don't know how old you are but I lived through the Cold War. The prospect of sudden annihilation was present all the time and it was scary as fuck. Since the end of the USSR that omnipresent fear seems to have gone - for me anyway, but paradoxically the likelihood of a nuclear exchange (not between the USA and Russia though) seems more likely to me.

[Svartalf]

Well, problem is that if kim pulls out a nuke, it will be hard not to vitrify Pyongyang as baseline retaliation.

Now, the main question will be how far China wants to go to back NK, given that the economic cost of going to war against the US would be devastating as they would at the same time lose a large export market, and void a fairly large investment they had made in USGt debt.

[Audley Strange]

@Rum

Yeah I remember growing up with the threat of nuclear war seemingly always being at the forefront of the public conciousness and the media revelling in scaring us shitless with dramas and documentaries while the Government did their bit with the horrible protect and survive fear pamphlet. With the exception of a couple of countries going all out I no longer fear that scenario.

In this case I wonder if the intent of North Korea might be a case of revolutionary suicide by world police if not merely a delusion on its behalf. I do not think China would intervene because I do not think anyone including the Chinese would allow North Korea to launch such a missile since the ramifications of such are far too problematic to consider.

[laklak]

I remember "duck and cover" drills in school. Remember kids, when you see the flash......DUCK AND COVER!

We were supposed to get under our desks and cover our head with our arms, like that was going to save us from a megaton of Soviet nuke detonating 20,000 feet over our heads. My grandparents even built a fallout shelter during the missile crisis, which was actually not a bad idea given that McDill Air Force Base was 40 mile away.

[Berthold]

I remember "duck and cover" drills in school. Remember kids, when you see the flash......DUCK AND COVER!

We were supposed to get under our desks and cover our head with our arms, like that was going to save us from a megaton of Soviet nuke detonating 20,000 feet over our heads.

It does help against the assumed multitude of cases when the bomb is not over one's head.

[FBM]

Honestly, I don't see China backing NK, especially if they are the aggressors. They have no economic incentive to do so.

[Ian]

Honestly, I don't see China backing NK, especially if they are the aggressors. They have no economic incentive to do so.

I could write quite a few pages on this subject, but that post sums it up rather nicely.

[Rum]

The OP was not so much about NK, China and the USA as the fact that the collapse of the old MAD logic might mean that a nuclear exchange of some sort may be more likely as a result given it might not result in a total global catastrophe.

Given that we have lived with both Chernobyl and seem pretty relaxed (media wise anyway!) about Fukushima - accidents in the civil area rather than war of course - that were unthinkable a few decades ago it makes me wonder..the fear of 'radiation' may be subsiding..

[mistermack]

I don't know, but I really hope I don't have to see it. All war is horrific but the idea of nukes really messes with my head.

I don't know how old you are but I lived through the Cold War. The prospect of sudden annihilation was present all the time and it was scary as fuck.

I don't really understand that. I was there, and the thought never bothered me. Most people work on the assumption that it will never happen, and if it does, it won't happen to them. I'm the same.
Why on earth be worried about that, when you know that your own eventual death is inevitable. If anything is scary as fuck, that's the one, as you know that it IS going to happen.
I gave up worrying about the fate of the planet, or even of my loved ones. I know their fate, and the fate of the planet. It's the same as mine.

I would PREFER a nice future for mankind, and the planet, and would help towards it, but it's not worth fretting over.
.

[Geoff]

I don't know, but I really hope I don't have to see it. All war is horrific but the idea of nukes really messes with my head.

I don't know how old you are but I lived through the Cold War. The prospect of sudden annihilation was present all the time and it was scary as fuck.

I don't really understand that. I was there, and the thought never bothered me. Most people work on the assumption that it will never happen, and if it does, it won't happen to them. I'm the same.
Why on earth be worried about that, when you know that your own eventual death is inevitable. If anything is scary as fuck, that's the one, as you know that it IS going to happen.
I gave up worrying about the fate of the planet, or even of my loved ones. I know their fate, and the fate of the planet. It's the same as mine.

I would PREFER a nice future for mankind, and the planet, and would help towards it, but it's not worth fretting over.
.

I'm with you on that one. I was a bit too young for the Kennedy era (about 8 or 9 at the time of the Cuban Missile crisis), but lived through the "Reagan Doctrine" years without worrying too much about MAD. In fact, we were much more concerned about the increasing powers of the Trade Unions, till Maggie sorted them out.

[sandinista]

I don't know, but I really hope I don't have to see it. All war is horrific but the idea of nukes really messes with my head.

I don't know how old you are but I lived through the Cold War. The prospect of sudden annihilation was present all the time and it was scary as fuck.

I don't really understand that. I was there, and the thought never bothered me. Most people work on the assumption that it will never happen, and if it does, it won't happen to them. I'm the same.
Why on earth be worried about that, when you know that your own eventual death is inevitable. If anything is scary as fuck, that's the one, as you know that it IS going to happen.
I gave up worrying about the fate of the planet, or even of my loved ones. I know their fate, and the fate of the planet. It's the same as mine.

I would PREFER a nice future for mankind, and the planet, and would help towards it, but it's not worth fretting over.
.

I agree, I'm much more concerned with people living in poverty, going hungry, and the violence committed on people and animals on a daily basis.