Libya: should anything be done?

[Warren Dew]

Up until now, more and more of Libya's government has been defecting from Gadafi. Rebels - including army units that have defected - hold the eastern half of the country, and it seems the Libyan overseas diplomatic establishment has sided with the rebels.

However, Gadafi has just launched offensives on two eastern oil refinery cities, one of which his forces have apparently taken. It seems that while the bulk of the military is against him, the parts that are largely loyal to him - the special forces and the air force - are the most competent parts.

The rebels are now pressing NATO and the U.S. to intervene militarily on their side. I'm curious, with all the people who are against U.S. imperialism here, if that opinion extends to the current situation in Libya. So what say you?

Report on the current situation with a map:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

[laklak]

Nope. We stay the fuck out and let them sort out their own shit. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't, so may as well avoid putting any of our own in harm's way.

[Rum]

Iraq? Afghanistan?

I don't think so..

[Atheist-Lite]

Now there's oil refinaries at stake watch what happens?

[Rum]

Now there's oil refinaries at stake watch what happens?

I really don't think so.

[Feck]

I can see a reason to enforce a NO FLY zone on the country but nothing else .

[Atheist-Lite]

I can see a reason to enforce a NO FLY zone on the country but nothing else .

I'm pretty sure there's special forces all over now - and their not just rescuing refugees.

[laklak]

I wouldn't even enforce a no-fly zone. Libya's airspace is Libya's airspace, what right do we have to restrict it? What happens when Libyan fighters shoot back? Then we're in another shooting war. Besides, some civilian is bound to get caught in a crossfire or squished by a falling Mirage and then we'll be Aggressor Imperialist Murderers yet again.

We get almost no oil from Libya to start with, why should it matter who owns the wells? If the Italians are worried about it let them take care of it, it isn't our business.

[PsychoSerenity]

We should give as much aid to the refugees as we can - other than that, we have no right to be meddling with other countries until we can sort out our own. I wouldn't advocate military intervention in Libya any more than I would in Britain.

I can see a reason to enforce a NO FLY zone on the country but nothing else .

would be fine if they could do it without bombing the place first, but apparently they can't.

[Rum]

I wouldn't even enforce a no-fly zone. Libya's airspace is Libya's airspace, what right do we have to restrict it? What happens when Libyan fighters shoot back? Then we're in another shooting war. Besides, some civilian is bound to get caught in a crossfire or squished by a falling Mirage and then we'll be Aggressor Imperialist Murderers yet again.

We get almost no oil from Libya to start with, why should it matter who owns the wells? If the Italians are worried about it let them take care of it, it isn't our business.

Britain gets almost 10% of its oil and gas from Libya. The pump price is going through the roof at the moment.

[Feck]

I can see a reason to enforce a NO FLY zone on the country but nothing else .

I'm pretty sure there's special forces all over now - and their not just rescuing refugees.

I was going to add to my post and say that if good intel was available and assets then 'help' could be given without admitting it

[laklak]

Britain gets almost 10% of its oil and gas from Libya. The pump price is going through the roof at the moment.

Ours is too - 40 cent increase per gallon in the last 2 weeks, despite the fact that Libyan production has a negligible effect on us. The talking heads natter on about the spot price and instability in the futures market, but I think it's just the oil companies once again raping the public at the pump.

[Warren Dew]

I can see a reason to enforce a NO FLY zone on the country but nothing else .

would be fine if they could do it without bombing the place first, but apparently they can't.

You have to destroy the air defenses first to do it efficiently.

Also, you need nearby air bases. In Iraq, we had air bases in Turkey for the northern no fly zone, and in Kuwait for the southern no fly zone. I don't believe we have such nearby bases for Libya, and we wouldn't be able to reach the central regions of Libya anyway.

That doesn't preclude doing it inefficiently or ineffectively, of course.

Ours is too - 40 cent increase per gallon in the last 2 weeks, despite the fact that Libyan production has a negligible effect on us.

It's all one global oil market; loss of Libyan capacity has the same effect on everyone.

That said, it's probably incorrect to view the current move as an unusual rise in oil prices. It's probably more accurate to view the prices of the last few years as unusually low due to the global recession, and the current increases as a return to normal prices.

Keep in mind that over the longer term, we should expect oil prices to continue increasing since we are, after all, using it up.

Edit: hey, sandinista, no opinion on this?

[Seth]

Britain gets almost 10% of its oil and gas from Libya. The pump price is going through the roof at the moment.

Ours is too - 40 cent increase per gallon in the last 2 weeks, despite the fact that Libyan production has a negligible effect on us. The talking heads natter on about the spot price and instability in the futures market, but I think it's just the oil companies once again raping the public at the pump.

Actually, it's the oil speculators, not the oil companies.

[Seth]

I wouldn't even enforce a no-fly zone. Libya's airspace is Libya's airspace, what right do we have to restrict it? What happens when Libyan fighters shoot back? Then we're in another shooting war. Besides, some civilian is bound to get caught in a crossfire or squished by a falling Mirage and then we'll be Aggressor Imperialist Murderers yet again.

We get almost no oil from Libya to start with, why should it matter who owns the wells? If the Italians are worried about it let them take care of it, it isn't our business.

Yup. Let the UN and particularly France, which has close historic links with Libya, and supplied its aircraft, do it.

America needs to stay strictly out of this dogfight.