The Death Penalty is a Good Thing

[Gawd]

The death penalty is a good thing. Why crowd the prison system and waste taxpayer money just so that you lock someone up for god so many years? Locking someone up for many years is a form of torture. It is much more humane to just kill them. All that you are doing is pro-longing the suffering by keeping them alive. There is nothing wrong with sentencing someone to death for serious crimes. They are a lost cause and it is highly illogical to confine them in small spaces for years on end instead of just giving them a quick injection or the guillotine.

[Bella Fortuna]

Errrr..... joos?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I volunteered to flip the switch once. The guy needed it.

[sandinista]

The death penalty is a good thing. Why crowd the prison system and waste taxpayer money just so that you lock someone up for god so many years? Locking someone up for many years is a form of torture. It is much more humane to just kill them. All that you are doing is pro-longing the suffering by keeping them alive. There is nothing wrong with sentencing someone to death for serious crimes. They are a lost cause and it is highly illogical to confine them in small spaces for years on end instead of just giving them a quick injection or the guillotine.

Gives too much power to the state. Can't reconcile murder being illegal, and then murdering someone.

[maiforpeace]

The death penalty is a good thing. Why crowd the prison system and waste taxpayer money just so that you lock someone up for god so many years? Locking someone up for many years is a form of torture. It is much more humane to just kill them. All that you are doing is pro-longing the suffering by keeping them alive. There is nothing wrong with sentencing someone to death for serious crimes. They are a lost cause and it is highly illogical to confine them in small spaces for years on end instead of just giving them a quick injection or the guillotine.

Gives too much power to the state. Can't reconcile murder being illegal, and then murdering someone.

I am ashamed to live in a state, and country that still has the death penalty. It's barbaric.

The death penalty in the US is a particularly terrible thing. With the current judicial system as it is, more money is spent on the long, drawn out appeals process than it costs to keep a prisoner for life.

Then there's the heartache, pain and toll this process takes on all involved - the criminal, the family of the criminal and particularly, the family of the victim. They won't get the satisfaction of seeing someone die when it might be healing. So, after years of appeals, they either have learned how to deal with it only to have the angst and heartache start up all over again when the penalty is finally implemented. Or, they have not dealt with it and remained hurt, angry and depressed the entire time. The criminal and his family are jerked around for years, wondering if they will be put to death, and/or when. I don't see this as humane or healing for anyone.

[Gawd]

I don't see the death penalty as barbaric. In fact, I see it as the more humane choice because there every thing is resolved quickly and swiftly instead of being drawn out for decades in the room the size of my shoe closet. Is that really humane? To confine someone into a small space for decades on end? Some people are just inherently bad and will do great harm no matter what. It is the consequence of evolution: you get the whole spectrum when the gamma rays will kill you. There is no hope or anything you can do short of giving them a lobotomy. People are just Aussies and afraid of death for no good reason when it is the choice that causes the least pain and chaos.

@Sandinista: Governments already assassinate and kill people in other countries. There is qualm about killing.

[my_wan]

I don't lose any sleep over many murderers being killed. My problem is that, no matter what you do, a lot of innocent people go down to. Even law enforcement puts it at around 5%. The fact that the majority of people getting convicted of crimes they didn't do are themselves criminals in some way is no excuse. If you think CSI science fixes this problem, think again. Think how easy it would be to convict you, on some hairs or blood showing up in a crime scene, or even a freak accident.

It's easy enough to point at this or that case and say, we''ll at least there we can be sure they really are guilty, but no set of rules to codify the level of certainty needed is possible. The law doesn't even allow levels of certainty. It becomes a black and white binary determination. We already spend so much money on automatic appeals to the death penalty that it's cheaper to give a life sentence.

So the fact that I will not lose sleep over certain guilty people being put to death is not reason enough to keep the death penalty. State power, as sandinista pointed out, innocent people being killed, the lack of effect in reducing crime, etc., etc., is more than enough reason to discontinue it. As far as I'm concerned jail is not about punishment, which doesn't even work, it's about public protection.

[sandinista]

I don't see the death penalty as barbaric. In fact, I see it as the more humane choice because there every thing is resolved quickly and swiftly instead of being drawn out for decades in the room the size of my shoe closet. Is that really humane? To confine someone into a small space for decades on end? Some people are just inherently bad and will do great harm no matter what. It is the consequence of evolution: you get the whole spectrum when the gamma rays will kill you. There is no hope or anything you can do short of giving them a lobotomy. People are just Aussies and afraid of death for no good reason when it is the choice that causes the least pain and chaos.

@Sandinista: Governments already assassinate and kill people in other countries. There is qualm about killing.

Yes, governments assassinate (or try to) and kill people in other countries. I assume you meant "no" qualms about killing btw. These behaviors should be done away with (and exposed) instead of adding the killing of prisoners to the mix. A better idea, than prison, or the death penalty, is to try to alleviate the causes of crime before they happen (treating drug abuse as a medical issue, not a criminal one, alleviating poverty, helping people have a basic standard of living i.e. food clothes, shelter, establishing better, more effective mental health programs etc.)

[Gawd]

@my_wan

Oh come'on. Of course you will kill some innoncent people, just like you jail some innocent people for life. And I like to see just where you are pulling your statistics out from. They seem to come from where the sun doesn't shine and a standard hippie excuse saying that we get everything wrong.

[Gawd]

I don't see the death penalty as barbaric. In fact, I see it as the more humane choice because there every thing is resolved quickly and swiftly instead of being drawn out for decades in the room the size of my shoe closet. Is that really humane? To confine someone into a small space for decades on end? Some people are just inherently bad and will do great harm no matter what. It is the consequence of evolution: you get the whole spectrum when the gamma rays will kill you. There is no hope or anything you can do short of giving them a lobotomy. People are just Aussies and afraid of death for no good reason when it is the choice that causes the least pain and chaos.

@Sandinista: Governments already assassinate and kill people in other countries. There is qualm about killing.

Yes, governments assassinate (or try to) and kill people in other countries. I assume you meant "no" qualms about killing btw. These behaviors should be done away with (and exposed) instead of adding the killing of prisoners to the mix. A better idea, than prison, or the death penalty, is to try to alleviate the causes of crime before they happen (treating drug abuse as a medical issue, not a criminal one, alleviating poverty, helping people have a basic standard of living i.e. food clothes, shelter, establishing better, more effective mental health programs etc.)

Some people are just inherently harmful jackasses. There is nothing you can do to stop them short of doing away with them.

[JimC]

@my_wan

Oh come'on. Of course you will kill some innoncent people, just like you jail some innocent people for life. And I like to see just where you are pulling your statistics out from. They seem to come from where the sun doesn't shine and a standard hippie excuse saying that we get everything wrong.

The argument against the death penalty based on the incorrect conviction of innocent people is the deal-breaker for me on capital punishment. In this post, Gawd, you are clearly accepting that a certain number of innocent people will be executed, whatever the actual % might be. Like my wan, I would not quibble too much at the judicially ordered death of the perpetrator, particularly for crimes of real brutality , but the fundamental impossibility of being 100% accurate is the crux of the matter. You can always release someone from life imprisonment if they are subsequently proved innocent...

[Hermit]

You can always release someone from life imprisonment if they are subsequently proved innocent...

...which has happened frequently enough to make you wonder just how many innocent people have been executed.

my_wan, you pretty much expressed exactly what I have said elsewhere, except for the fact that i don't approve of people being killed via legal procedures under any circumstances. There are undoubtedly individuals who need to be removed from society for the rest of their lives, for they are incorrigible, but confining them in a prison or lunatic asylum ought to suffice. The alternative is just too barbaric.

[sandinista]

I don't see the death penalty as barbaric. In fact, I see it as the more humane choice because there every thing is resolved quickly and swiftly instead of being drawn out for decades in the room the size of my shoe closet. Is that really humane? To confine someone into a small space for decades on end? Some people are just inherently bad and will do great harm no matter what. It is the consequence of evolution: you get the whole spectrum when the gamma rays will kill you. There is no hope or anything you can do short of giving them a lobotomy. People are just Aussies and afraid of death for no good reason when it is the choice that causes the least pain and chaos.

@Sandinista: Governments already assassinate and kill people in other countries. There is qualm about killing.

Yes, governments assassinate (or try to) and kill people in other countries. I assume you meant "no" qualms about killing btw. These behaviors should be done away with (and exposed) instead of adding the killing of prisoners to the mix. A better idea, than prison, or the death penalty, is to try to alleviate the causes of crime before they happen (treating drug abuse as a medical issue, not a criminal one, alleviating poverty, helping people have a basic standard of living i.e. food clothes, shelter, establishing better, more effective mental health programs etc.)

Some people are just inherently harmful jackasses. There is nothing you can do to stop them short of doing away with them.

True, but I think they are the minority of cases. Also, the defense for poor people is often (could probably get away with saying always) far worse than their wealthy counterparts. The legal system is just far to skewed against the poor to be in favor of the death penelty. I'm actually opposed to it on many levels the more I ponder it.

[Gawd]

@my_wan

Oh come'on. Of course you will kill some innoncent people, just like you jail some innocent people for life. And I like to see just where you are pulling your statistics out from. They seem to come from where the sun doesn't shine and a standard hippie excuse saying that we get everything wrong.

The argument against the death penalty based on the incorrect conviction of innocent people is the deal-breaker for me on capital punishment. In this post, Gawd, you are clearly accepting that a certain number of innocent people will be executed, whatever the actual % might be. Like my wan, I would not quibble too much at the judicially ordered death of the perpetrator, particularly for crimes of real brutality , but the fundamental impossibility of being 100% accurate is the crux of the matter. You can always release someone from life imprisonment if they are subsequently proved innocent...

Oh, come on Jim. You know that the justice system can never be 100% accurate no matter what and to use that as an argument against the death penalty is a non-argument. And the benefit of a more efficient justice system far outway any innocent convicts on death row. What do you even the number of those false positives is? Like 2? You are letting your emotions do your thinking instead of being clear headed and logical insupporting the death penalty. With a leaner and more efficient penal system, there are more resources available to fight crime and to lessen the burden on the judges that often make cases drag on for years.

And you really think releasing someone after a few decades in the slammer will make everything ok? No it doesn't. You have already ruined their life and tortured them for those endless years. They are not the same person any more.

[my_wan]

@my_wan

Oh come'on. Of course you will kill some innoncent people, just like you jail some innocent people for life. And I like to see just where you are pulling your statistics out from. They seem to come from where the sun doesn't shine and a standard hippie excuse saying that we get everything wrong.

Yes, innocent people are but a small part of the balance though. I would give my odds of dying on the way to the store tomorrow a far greater probability than being convicted of something I didn't do, much less getting the death penalty. So if this was the only issue I would agree you have every right to poo poo it. Of the 2 innocent people I know of that were convicted, were just idiots, who just let the DA spook the hell out of them with BS lies, and coped out for suspended sentences.

Probably the biggest issue is state power, but even that would be moot if I could assume the information from the state was infallible. Certainly killing people could be cheaper than locking them up forever, but it's not. Nor do I see any deterrent advantage to the death penalty. Stiffer sentences tend to have the opposite effect, as a person without anything to lose has no limits.

So I don't begrudge your position, but if given a vote I would vote against it.