Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Yes there is. The right-wingers in American congress have been supporting the Tea Baggers' attacks on Democrats.
Don't even have to leave Merkun shores.
Don't even have to leave Merkun shores.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
-
- Posts: 32040
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Admitted? I disclosed that fact, yes. A lot of people have their wrong age on here - I've seen people enter all sorts of numbers that are not their true age.heyzeus wrote:Joe Sacco at your service! I could have sworn CES admitted he isn't really twenty in another thread...Gawdzilla wrote:We need more graphic novels on historical matters.Ian wrote:He's 20. How well do you think he really understands the world around him?Gawdzilla wrote:C.E.S., you think the "Peace Movement" was violent? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I'm not sure why it matters what age we are, unless you plan on discounting an argument because of the age of the person making the argument....
- Chinaski
- Mazel tov cocktail
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:33 am
- About me: Barfly
- Location: Aberdeen
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
I can't argue this to the extent it deserves now, but a few points:Coito ergo sum wrote:Let's discuss it - start a thread. I am absolutely sure you are wrong about that. I'll take you on in that debate. Are you willing? Start the thread and let's do it.Chinaski wrote:
1) Were Bush and co. to be tried in a war tribunal, they'd be found guilty of crimes against humanity and executed. Were they to be tried by the Strasbourg court, they'd get life in prison.
Never said it did....Neither does the right wing media (e.g. Fox News).Chinaski wrote:
2) The left-wing media does not call for violence.
Chinaski wrote:
It doesn't deliberately mislead and mangle facts for its own political agenda.
Only because you don't question what they say.
MSNBC folks like Olbermann and the gang are quite adept at misleading and deceiving for their agenda.Chinaski wrote:
Unlike the right wing media. I'm referring to mainstream tv channels in the states- of course Bolshevik Underground Radio is going to be different. -.-''
By those with whom you disagree. You have no problem when the democratic process is being hijacked by those with whom you agree.Chinaski wrote:
3) The outrage against people like the Tea Party Protesters isn't due to a sense of "how dare they criticize the president!", it's due to frustration at seeing the democratic process being hijacked by demagoguery, ignorance and instinctive violence.
Further, the tea partiers - as stupid as they are - are ENGAGING in the democratic process. They are as entitled to protest, write, speak and express themselves politically as you and anyone else.
Says you. It is not antidemocratic to be against socialist economics and socialism. To many people, it is a bad thing. And, your opinion to the contrary is not a "fact." It's a value judgment. You like socialism. Good for you. That is your right.Chinaski wrote:
Obama is much more of a socialist than his predecessor was- but socialism is NOT A BAD THING.
By objective standards, it is left of center in almost all respects. The only thing I would consider objectively centrist is his war policy.Chinaski wrote:
Apart from that, his platform is, by objective standards, completely centrist.
See, there you go - you think your hyperbole is "objective."Chinaski wrote:
Bush's platform brought us much closer to a totalitarian state-
Note, the Patriot Act is still in force, and the Democrats have the White House and the House and the Senate. Obama support it, obviously, since he signed into law its extension.Chinaski wrote:
the patriot act,
It wasn't illegal, and it's your opinion that it was a diversion. Many others think that he had it planned from the outset of his administration (and therefore not as a diversion from domestic issues since he would have just taken office... Many others think Bush was sincere in that the correct course of action was to pursue international terrorist organizations of global reach and their state sponsors, along with loose-cannon dictators with their sites on catastrophic weapons.Chinaski wrote:
an illegal war to divert from domestic issues,
Obama polarizes the electorate as well. That's nothing new for politics.Chinaski wrote:
an abundance of moralizing non-issues like abortion and gay rights to polarize the electorate and FURTHER distract from real issues, etc.
A bit?Chinaski wrote:
Calling Bush a fascist is a bit exaggerated,
No more or less so than calling Obama a Marxist socialist.Chinaski wrote:
but by no means a long stretch of the imagination.
Others may think your opinion deserves respect. We are all free to respect, or not respect, what we like.Chinaski wrote:
The two positions are not on equal footing, nor do they deserve the same amount of respect as far as being "opinions" go.
The "death panel" label was placed on an actual provision of the health care bill. Here's an article discussing the Senate's decision to drop that provision: http://www.lifenews.com/bio2920.html - calling it a "death panel" was hyperbole. Something you don't object to when it is directed in a direction that you support.Chinaski wrote:
4) Common protests regarding death panels
You are pretending that this is something that anyone but a few crackpots ever alleged. The mainstream right wing media didn't give it one second's credence. Some old lady stands up in a town hall meeting, and is immediately put in her place by McCain, and your harping all over it?Chinaski wrote: and Obama's alleged Islamism,
Why do you object to that? Your side said those things about Bush - Fascism, Naziism, totalitarianism, dictator, king - etc. Does the argument and debate only have to be civil when it comes to your guy?Chinaski wrote:
Communism, Fascism and Socialism, all at the same time (because apparently these things are not mutually exclusive >.<)
Sure do. I agree. The teabaggers call him a marxist and a communist all the time. They don't tie a noose around his neck though and set him on fire, like the liberals did of Bush, do they?Chinaski wrote:
abound among the teabaggers,
Are you referring to the leftist "Bush Lied People Died" people who set fire to his effigy and falsely claimed he was a Nazi and a fascist? Those guys? Or, is it just the ones you disagree with?Chinaski wrote:
and it doesn't matter how much you defend someone's "right to their opinion"- if they're wrong, they're wrong, and these people are so full of fucking shit it's unbelievable.
If you're wrong, you're wrong. And, you are wrong about the Iraq War being illegal. Like I said above, I'll debate you on that any day of the week. Start the thread and post your argument as to how and why the war is and was illegal, and please specify whether you think it is still illegal and why.
Bill O'Reilly on Fox News called for the murder of George Tiller, and Glenn Beck did that stunt with the baseball bat calling for violent rioting.
Socialism is necessary to maintain basic human rights that are recognized worldwide (in the advanced world, at least) as being imperative to the wellbeing of the human race. It's not my opinion.
Bush's war went against international law, and there are many documented cases of American troops blatantly violating international laws on warfare (I refer you again to Monbiot's work).
When did Democrats hijack the democratic process? Chances are, I disagree with that too.
Only an American would consider Obama's platform left of center. Anywhere else he'd be the dreamboy of the center.
I'm aware of Obama extending the Patriot Act, and it pisses me off.
Bush engaged in proto-fascist initiatives- ergo, he can be called a fascist more than Obama, who hasn't done anything remotely Marxist at all, can be called a Marxist.
Obama's alleged Islamism is touted all the time by Republicans and Libertarians.
Beyond that, how about you address and argue against the entirety of my argument, and not attempt to dissect it by presenting irrelevant answers to singular elements in my argument? You said nothing to answer my overall point, you merely tried to subvert my position with red herrings and ad hocs.
Is there for honest poverty
That hangs his heid and a' that
The coward slave, we pass him by
We dare be puir for a' that.
http://imagegen.last.fm/iTunesFIXED/rec ... mphony.gif[/img2]
That hangs his heid and a' that
The coward slave, we pass him by
We dare be puir for a' that.
http://imagegen.last.fm/iTunesFIXED/rec ... mphony.gif[/img2]
-
- Posts: 32040
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
I see that in the masses in general. The left wing in general holds no claim to superior knowledge than the right wing. The average IQ is about 100. Most people are stupid and uneducated, and there is plenty of misinformation and historical misunderstandings and oversimplifications from the left too.born-again-atheist wrote:You know what I see in the uneducated right-wing masses? Severe levels of illiteracy, an incredibly flawed understanding of history and the wilful submission to a fabricated history. That is far more threatening than any twenty-something year old's badly-drawn placard.
And it's proved true time and time again.
- Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
The fact that you're making this up as you go along is the factor we're working on here. You're simply bullshitting us, making up stuff as you go along. Freshman antics. And it's tedious, boorish and absurd.Coito ergo sum wrote:I'm not sure why it matters what age we are, unless you plan on discounting an argument because of the age of the person making the argument....
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Really? Because I don't recall the Main-stream left calling for Bush's Birth Certificate.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
- MissingNo.
- Cheese is christ
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:10 am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Not even! Obama is far more right-leaning than that. In the context of American politics, he should be considered center-right. On the scale of global industrialized civilization, he's pretty right-wing.Chinaski wrote:Only an American would consider Obama's platform left of center. Anywhere else he'd be the dreamboy of the center.
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
American Politics essentially works like this:
If you don't have corporate interests ahead of theinterests of the people, then you're left-wing.
If you don't have corporate interests ahead of theinterests of the people, then you're left-wing.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
- RuleBritannia
- Cupid is a cunt!
- Posts: 1630
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:55 pm
- About me: About you
- Location: The Machine
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Man this thread cracks me up.
You got the right wingers with their "peaceful" protesters holding up stupid signs with laugh out fucking loud bad spelling and grammer about made up "marxist" bullshit and general whack-job conspiracies.
Then you got the left wingers with their "violent" protesters holding up their stupid signs about killing George Bush without a trial and general wasting of tax payers money by being twats so extra police have to be called.
But I think the most part of this thread is that some people hate those on the other side of the political spectrum so much that they would actually defend the actions of those on their "side", instead of just calling them all arseholes and idiots.
You got the right wingers with their "peaceful" protesters holding up stupid signs with laugh out fucking loud bad spelling and grammer about made up "marxist" bullshit and general whack-job conspiracies.
Then you got the left wingers with their "violent" protesters holding up their stupid signs about killing George Bush without a trial and general wasting of tax payers money by being twats so extra police have to be called.
But I think the most part of this thread is that some people hate those on the other side of the political spectrum so much that they would actually defend the actions of those on their "side", instead of just calling them all arseholes and idiots.
RuleBritannia © MMXI
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Of course not. And I wasn't attributing the groups I mentioned to the mainstream right.Coito ergo sum wrote:The difference is that nobody in mainstream politics defends those people....Ian wrote:Concur. Maybe we should start talking about American militias, white supremacists, pro-life activists, Timothy McVeigh, etc. There's no shortage of information on how violent the right has been.Gawdzilla wrote:Unmitigated bullshit.Coito ergo sum wrote: And, left wingers are far more prone to use violence over the last 50 years than right leaning folks.
Weather Underground, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the Armed Forces for Puerto Rican National Liberation (FALN) (bombings and kidnappings)....Animal Liberation Front... socialist Black Blocs and others that riot and attack people and property during antiglobalization protests... Earth Liberation Front (firebombing construction sites, logging companies, car dealerships and food science labs).
Will you attribute the left wing groups to the mainstream left, too?
You're convinced the left is more prone to violence. I'm absolutely convinced otherwise. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other. But... you didn't say anything to my offer to discuss the broader trends of ignorance and fear-mongering. Would you like to discuss polls which show just how many rank-and-file ordinary conservatives really think Obama is a Socialist/foreigner/muslim/etc.? The numbers I've heard are pretty disconcerting. And there is a definitive link between them and between the visible behavior of the vocal minorities on the right.
(BTW, why are you lying about your age? I'll admit that looking down on the opinions of a 20-yr old is a fault of mine (I value genuine experience in the world as well as academic accomplishment); but knowing that claiming to be very young might undermine your credibility (sorry Chinaski), why bother? You're obviously much older than 20, unless you remember witnessing anti-Gulf War protests when you were an infant.)
-
- Posts: 32040
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Yes, that's true. And, when people post stuff about the right and the tea partier signs, they attribute that to the general right-of-center population.Ian wrote:Coito, you've dug up a fair amount of stuff indicating that not everyone who's left-of-center always behaves nicely. Others have shown similar stuff about the right.
Absolutely, I agree with that. I never said it wasn't, actually.Ian wrote:
I think we can agree that we're all talking about stuff that's said by vocal minorities, those people who actually bother to go out and attend rallies.
I don't think that's relevant either, or it would be best in another thread. I don't think you folks would like what you see if you saw some of the things people commonly thought about Bush either. My position is that people are idiots in general.Ian wrote:
Do you really want to start talking about larger trends and demographics? By that I mean, getting some polling information which shows percentages of Dems who genuinely thought Bush was a legitimate fascist, vice percentages of Republicans who honestly think Obama is a socialist (or foreign-born, or Muslim, etc.). I don't think you want to go down that road.
LOL - you are right that I am not being wholly objective here, but that's because of the fact that I am in the minority here. Most people here voice the left wing opinion. So, yes, I am taking kind of a "Devil's Advocate" role. So many people pile on me on this board, that often it feels as if I'm fighting 10 people at once.Ian wrote: I don't think you're objective at all. I think your level of understanding is nothing more than academic. You're a kid.
My level of understanding is from a lifetime of experience extending back decades, and a lot of academic study as well. I'd be willing to be I have a greater knowledge here than most of the people partaking in this discussion. What I can do is think objectively enough to know that someone who holds an opinion contrary to mine can have a reasonable basis for it. Many people here arguing from the left simply state that the right is ignorant or has a false understanding of the "facts" of history, etc., and that the right has base motives - in other words, they won't credit a right-leaning opinion with being based in reason or out of a beneficent motive.
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Politically I'm centrist, but I hate the right far more than the left. I live in the Western World, the left are University students who eventually grow up and out of mindless monologuing about the evils of the rise of Imperialistic America. The Right Wingers are just as blind, but the difference is they usually don't grow up.RuleBritannia wrote: Man this thread cracks me up.
You got the right wingers with their "peaceful" protesters holding up stupid signs with laugh out fucking loud bad spelling and grammer about made up "marxist" bullshit and general whack-job conspiracies.
Then you got the left wingers with their "violent" protesters holding up their stupid signs about killing George Bush without a trial and general wasting of tax payers money by being twats so extra police have to be called.
But I think the most part of this thread is that some people hate those on the other side of the political spectrum so much that they would actually defend the actions of those on their "side", instead of just calling them all arseholes and idiots.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
-
- Posts: 32040
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
I'm convinced that there is violence from the left, yes. In general, I don't think they are "prone" to it.Ian wrote:Of course not. And I wasn't attributing the groups I mentioned to the mainstream right.Coito ergo sum wrote:The difference is that nobody in mainstream politics defends those people....Ian wrote:Concur. Maybe we should start talking about American militias, white supremacists, pro-life activists, Timothy McVeigh, etc. There's no shortage of information on how violent the right has been.Gawdzilla wrote:Unmitigated bullshit.Coito ergo sum wrote: And, left wingers are far more prone to use violence over the last 50 years than right leaning folks.
Weather Underground, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the Armed Forces for Puerto Rican National Liberation (FALN) (bombings and kidnappings)....Animal Liberation Front... socialist Black Blocs and others that riot and attack people and property during antiglobalization protests... Earth Liberation Front (firebombing construction sites, logging companies, car dealerships and food science labs).
Will you attribute the left wing groups to the mainstream left, too?
You're convinced the left is more prone to violence.
I did - I would love to - start a thread if you will, and we'll go for it. I have little time left today, but will get back to it.Ian wrote:
I'm absolutely convinced otherwise. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other. But... you didn't say anything to my offer to discuss the broader trends of ignorance and fear-mongering.
Sure would. I know it's pretty high, but it also depends on who is conducting the survey, much like those Democrats who thought Bush was behind 9/11 and that he was a Nazi because of his grandfather Prescott....Ian wrote:
Would you like to discuss polls which show just how many rank-and-file ordinary conservatives really think Obama is a Socialist/foreigner/muslim/etc.?
It's not so much a "lie," any more than those that put 99 down as their age are "lying" - in the connotation of an intent to injury someone through deception. It's certainly not true, so it is technically a lie since I uttered it intentionally. But, it hurts nobody and I feel it is as irrelevant as my race or shoe size.Ian wrote:
(BTW, why are you lying about your age?
As I said - I think the age is irrelevant. An argument is either good or bad, the age of the person making it doesn't change the substance.Ian wrote:
I'll admit that looking down on the opinions of a 20-yr old is a fault of mine (I value genuine experience in the world as well as academic accomplishment); but knowing that claiming to be very young might undermine your credibility (sorry Chinaski), why bother? You're obviously much older than 20, unless you remember witnessing anti-Gulf War protests when you were an infant.)
- Chinaski
- Mazel tov cocktail
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:33 am
- About me: Barfly
- Location: Aberdeen
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
But the fact that on average, the intellectual upper strata of society votes Democrat means nothing, does it?Coito ergo sum wrote:I see that in the masses in general. The left wing in general holds no claim to superior knowledge than the right wing. The average IQ is about 100. Most people are stupid and uneducated, and there is plenty of misinformation and historical misunderstandings and oversimplifications from the left too.born-again-atheist wrote:You know what I see in the uneducated right-wing masses? Severe levels of illiteracy, an incredibly flawed understanding of history and the wilful submission to a fabricated history. That is far more threatening than any twenty-something year old's badly-drawn placard.
And it's proved true time and time again.
Is there for honest poverty
That hangs his heid and a' that
The coward slave, we pass him by
We dare be puir for a' that.
http://imagegen.last.fm/iTunesFIXED/rec ... mphony.gif[/img2]
That hangs his heid and a' that
The coward slave, we pass him by
We dare be puir for a' that.
http://imagegen.last.fm/iTunesFIXED/rec ... mphony.gif[/img2]
-
- Posts: 32040
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Weird, dumbass and hypocritical political statements...
Oh, if I wasn't clear on that point, I'll be so now: they are all assholes and idiots - all those depicted with the signs in this thread are assholes and idiots.RuleBritannia wrote: Man this thread cracks me up.
You got the right wingers with their "peaceful" protesters holding up stupid signs with laugh out fucking loud bad spelling and grammer about made up "marxist" bullshit and general whack-job conspiracies.
Then you got the left wingers with their "violent" protesters holding up their stupid signs about killing George Bush without a trial and general wasting of tax payers money by being twats so extra police have to be called.
But I think the most part of this thread is that some people hate those on the other side of the political spectrum so much that they would actually defend the actions of those on their "side", instead of just calling them all arseholes and idiots.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests