You guys and your guns...

[Jason]

I make no apologies Jiim. Mistermack crossed a line I will not tolerate. It has nothing to do with gun control or gun ownership, however. I'll presume and suggest we move on to more productive areas of discussion.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What's your favorite spray-and-pray weapon?

[SteveB]

Minigun.

[Jason]

What's your favorite spray-and-pray weapon?

The PPSh-41 with the drum mag of course.

[Blind groper]

Tools are not in and of themselves good or bad. Surely we can agree on that?

That is true. The thing is, though, that tools convey power. Sometimes the power is good. A plow increases agricultural productivity which is good. A set monofilament gill net leads to fishermen wiping out whole species, which is bad. It is not the fault of the tool, but the tool permits things to happen which would not, if the tool were not available.

Hand guns are a tool which permit murder, where murder would not otherwise happen. Obviously the murders are committed by nasty people. Not by the hand gun alone. Not normally by good people, either. But without the hand gun, the nasty individual would very likely fail in his murder attempt.

Comparing the USA and New Zealand is valid in this context. NZ has as much violent crime per capita (inasfar as lousy measurements can compare), and NZ has a lot of street gangs with violent tendencies. However, the violent acts of those nasty people rarely results in fatalities. A club, chain or knife can inflict wounds, but usually not death. An hand gun, though, inflicts death rather too often. As a result, the per capita murder rate of the USA is 3.35 times as great as NZ.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Minigun.

You are weak on the spray-and-pray concept.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What's your favorite spray-and-pray weapon?

The PPSh-41 with the drum mag of course.

B.A.R.

[Jason]

What's your favorite spray-and-pray weapon?

The PPSh-41 with the drum mag of course.

B.A.R.

I am so going to nube toob you.

[SteveB]

Minigun.

You are weak on the spray-and-pray concept.

Can you name a higher handheld fire rate?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Minigun.

You are weak on the spray-and-pray concept.

Can you name a higher handheld fire rate?

Go ahead, pack a mini. Your ammo load will kill you.

[SteveB]

Minigun.

You are weak on the spray-and-pray concept.

Can you name a higher handheld fire rate?

Go ahead, pack a mini. Your ammo load will kill you.

And you say my spray and pray is weak.

[Jason]

The FNFAL Minimi is actually an excellent squad support weapon. Utilising 5.56 NATO, it is both effective out to medium-long range and portable including full ammunition complement. Ever get that weird feeling of Deja-vu?


..If you're talking about a Vuilcan .. well 'live long and prosper'.

[SteveB]

See? Proper light machine guns are where it's at if you want shoot down a pine tree or spray the living hell out of something.

[Wumbologist]

I would hope we continue the debate in a manner that does not include personalities. I will criticise the use of guns, but try not to criticise the individuals.

I would welcome that.

I would apologize for my response to mistermack, but that would be hypocritical. Disrespect of veterans I cannot countenance..

Shall we continue in a more objective consideration of the issue then?

mm went way over the top, and did not contribute in any useful way to an amicable debate. BG and I may have our differences of opinion with the "other side" in his thread, but I think both of us have tried to be reasonably measured...

As I've already claimed in this thread, he's the anti-gun yin to Seth's yang. For every Seth, there is an equal and opposite mistermack.

[JimC]

I would hope we continue the debate in a manner that does not include personalities. I will criticise the use of guns, but try not to criticise the individuals.

I would welcome that.

I would apologize for my response to mistermack, but that would be hypocritical. Disrespect of veterans I cannot countenance..

Shall we continue in a more objective consideration of the issue then?

mm went way over the top, and did not contribute in any useful way to an amicable debate. BG and I may have our differences of opinion with the "other side" in his thread, but I think both of us have tried to be reasonably measured...

As I've already claimed in this thread, he's the anti-gun yin to Seth's yang. For every Seth, there is an equal and opposite mistermack.

And if they ever meet, the explosive annihilation will leave a crater the size of Manhattan!