The Coronavirus Thread

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Strontium Dog
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:14 pm

As ever, people can cherry-pick one or two studies that support their point, which is why I prefer the meta-analyses that consider many studies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7737089/
Estimated mean household secondary attack rate from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) was significantly higher than from asymptomatic or presymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%; P < .001)
Secondary attack rate in households of 18% from symptomatic cases, but only 0.7% from asymptomatic. Big difference.

I of course also find it funny that even in households with symptomatic cases, the secondary attack rate is still only 18%. Perhaps we're not all going to die after all.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:17 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:09 pm

This government paper mentions some of them.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... nments.pdf
Incidentally, that documents states the exact opposite of what you claim


The greatest viral load, and thus infectiousness, is observed during the first week of symptoms (especially day 0-5), declining after that. Pre symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission occurs and may play a significant role in facilitating transmission (medium confidence). Effective and rapid contact tracing and quarantine of contacts is therefore essential to identify and isolate contacts with no symptoms before they can spread the infection (high confidence).

[...]

Peak SARS-CoV-2 viral load in the respiratory tract is observed at the time of symptom onset or in the first week of illness with subsequent decline thereafter, which indicates the highest infection potential just before or within the first five days of symptom onset

[...]

It is plausible therefore that both asymptomatic and presymptomatic cases make a significant contribution to transmission.
And look what a nice graphic they have showing a high viral load before symptom onset
s.png

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:20 pm

Someone with symptoms is by definition not asymptomatic. I could swear that graph says "symptom onset" on the bottom.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:22 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:14 pm
As ever, people can cherry-pick one or two studies that support their point, which is why I prefer the meta-analyses that consider many studies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7737089/
Estimated mean household secondary attack rate from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) was significantly higher than from asymptomatic or presymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%; P < .001)
Secondary attack rate in households of 18% from symptomatic cases, but only 0.7% from asymptomatic. Big difference.
The "symptomatic" cases in these numbers do not exclude pre-symptomatic transmission since they can't differentiate whether the transmission happened before or after symptom onset.

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:26 pm

Hey, I just post the science. Take it up with the authors if you think they're wrong.
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:46 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:47 pm
... These are not infections but refer to positive tests.
There is an error rate for false-positive and false-negative Covid tests. These error rates vary slightly from types of test and in tests from different manufacturers. Do you know what those error rates are, and how might they support your contention that these 'positive tests' (as per Hermit's reproduction of official NL govt data) are not infections, as you suggest?
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:39 pm

You can have heart inflammation or nerve disease that is temporary. I guess a teen boy could skip either vaccine.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/j ... index.html

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:00 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:14 pm
As ever, people can cherry-pick one or two studies that support their point, which is why I prefer the meta-analyses that consider many studies.
You don't think that those doing meta-analysis cherry-pick data?
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Seabass » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:12 pm

The Grand Old Party of white nationalism, Christian nationalism, and anti-science fuckery. This is what happens when a political party politicizes science because they associate it with their perceived enemy.
Tennessee's former top vaccine official: 'I am afraid for my state'

Editor's note: On Monday, July 12, the Tennessee Department of Health fired Dr. Michelle Fiscus, the top vaccine official in the Tennessee state government. Fiscus said she was scapegoated to appease Republican state lawmakers who are angry about efforts to vaccinate teenagers. After losing her job, Fiscus released a 1,200-word statement about the ordeal. Below is her statement in its entirety.

Today I became the 25th of 64 state and territorial immunization program directors to leave their position during this pandemic. That’s nearly 40% of us. And along with our resignations or retirements or, as in my case, push from office, goes the institutional knowledge and leadership of our respective COVID-19 vaccine responses. I will not sit quietly by while our public health infrastructure is eroded in the midst of a pandemic.

We are a group of dedicated public health professionals who have worked endless hours to make COVID-19 vaccines, the ONE tool we have to effectively end the scourge of the COVID-19 pandemic, available to every person in our jurisdictions. Along the way we have been disparaged, demeaned, accused, and sometimes vilified by a public who chooses not to believe in science, and elected and appointed officials who have put their own self-interest above the people they were chosen to represent and protect.

On May 6, 2021, in advance of the approval of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine for 12-15 year olds and in response to multiple questions I had received regarding the rules around vaccinating minors, I reached out to Tennessee Department of Health’s general counsel to request a statement regarding Tennessee’s Mature Minor Doctrine that resulted from a Tennessee Supreme Court Ruling in Cardwell v Bechtol in 1987.

In response, I received a document attached to an email stating, “Sure—Attached is the new summary of the doctrine that has just recently been posted to the website and is blessed by the Governor’s office on the subject. This is forward facing so feel free to distribute to anyone.”

On May 10, 2021, I copied and pasted the language provided to me into a memo that was distributed only to providers who were administering COVID-19 vaccines. A recipient of that memo was upset that, according to Tennessee Supreme Court case law, minors ages 14-17 years are able to receive medical care in Tennessee without parental consent and posted the memo to social media. Within days, legislators were contacting TDH asking questions about the memo with some interpreting it as an attempt to undermine parental authority.

Let me be clear: this was an informational memo containing language approved by the TDH Office of General Counsel which was sent to medical providers by the medical director of the state’s immunization program regarding the guardrails set 34 years ago by the Tennessee Supreme Court around providing care to minors.

What has occurred in the time between the release of this memo and today, when I was terminated from my position as medical director of the vaccine-preventable diseases and immunization program at the Tennessee Department of Health, can only be described as bizarre.

On May 19th, TDH was asked to appear before the Government Operations Committee due to the concern that the memo was “a bit of a prodding or encouraging to vaccinate children without parental consent.” This was followed by a series of requests from members of the Committee for data around the impact of COVID-19 on children and a request to appear before the Committee again on June 16.

It was at that June 16th meeting that the Department was accused of “targeting” youth through Facebook messaging and its actions were described as “reprehensible” by one Committee member. That member went on to call for the “dissolving and reconstitution” of the Department of Health in the midst of a pandemic where one out of every 542 Tennesseans has died from COVID-19 on their watch and less than 38% of Tennesseans have been vaccinated.

This digital flyer, once part of the Tennessee Department of Health's vaccination awareness campaign, has vanished from the agency's website after some conservative lawmakers accused the agency of peer pressuring minors.
It is the mission of the Tennessee Department of Health to “protect, promote and improve the health and prosperity of the people of Tennessee” and protecting them against the deadliest infectious disease event in more than 100 years IS our job. It’s the most important job we’ve had in recent history. Specifically, it was MY job to provide evidence-based education and vaccine access so that Tennesseans could protect themselves against COVID-19. I have now been terminated for doing exactly that.

Each of us should be waking up every morning with one question on our minds: “What can I do to protect the people of Tennessee against COVID-19?” Instead, our leaders are putting barriers in place to ensure the people of Tennessee remain at-risk, even with the delta variant bearing down upon us.

What’s more is that the leadership of the Tennessee Department of Health has reacted to the sabre rattling from the Government Operations Committee by halting ALL vaccination outreach for children. Not just COVID-19 vaccine outreach for teens, but ALL communications around vaccines of any kind. No back-to-school messaging to the more than 30,000 parents who did not get their children measles vaccines last year due to the pandemic. No messaging around human papilloma virus vaccine to the residents of the state with one of the highest HPV cancer rates in the country. No observation of National Immunization Awareness Month in August. No reminders to the parents of teens who are late in receiving their second COVID-19 vaccine. THIS is a failure of public health to protect the people of Tennessee and THAT is what is “reprehensible”. When the people elected and appointed to lead this state put their political gains ahead of the public good, they have betrayed the people who have trusted them with their lives.

Tennessee state Sen. Janice Bowling questions Health Commissioner Dr. Lisa Piercey during a June 16 legislative hearing. Conservative lawmakers, including Bowling, were critical of the agency's efforts to vaccinate teenagers.
I was told that I should have been more “politically aware” and that I “poked the bear” when I sent a memo to medical providers clarifying a 34 year old Tennessee Supreme Court ruling. I am not a political operative, I am a physician who was, until today, charged with protecting the people of Tennessee, including its children, against preventable diseases like COVID-19.

I have been terminated for doing my job because some of our politicians have bought into the anti-vaccine misinformation campaign rather than taking the time to speak with the medical experts. They believe what they choose to believe rather than what is factual and evidence-based. And it is the people of Tennessee who will suffer the consequences of the actions of the very people they put into power.

The public health professionals at the Tennessee Department of Health have worked themselves to exhaustion to protect Tennesseans from this virus. They are heroes. They have prevented suffering and saved countless lives. They are to be honored and commended, not cursed and vilified. And the “leaders” of this state who have put their heads in the sand and denied the existence of COVID-19 or who thought they knew better than the scientists who have spent their lives working to prevent disease… who have ignored the dead and dying surrounding them — even when their own colleagues have fought for their lives — they are what is “reprehensible.”

I am ashamed of them. I am afraid for my state. I am angry for the amazing people of the Tennessee Department of Health who have been mistreated by an uneducated public and leaders who have only their own interests in mind. And I am deeply saddened for the people of Tennessee, who will continue to become sick and die from this vaccine-preventable disease because they choose to listen to the nonsense spread by ignorant people.

At this point, you are going to get vaccinated or you are going to get sick. Yes, not getting the vaccine is a personal choice. It’s true that you are likely to survive COVID-19. It’s the 1 out of every 542 people surrounding you that will suffer the consequences of an unfortunate decision to remain vulnerable to this horrible disease.

May God bless the people of Tennessee.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/h ... 945291002/
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:17 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:47 pm
Hermit wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:43 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:07 am
People who are vaccinated could test positive.
Which constitute cases of infection.

In the 16 days since the Dutch government has rescinded almost all regulations aimed at slowing the spread of of Coronavirus cases the 7-day average of daily new infections in the Netherlands has increased 8.7-fold.

Image
Fairy data. Does not prove anything. We will never be Covid free. These are not infections but refer to positive tests. That is due to the holidays as many youth who have not fully vaccinated are opting for a test to go out of the country. Older people dont bother with testing. The dictators saw their chance to bend Rutte's ear.

We are almost at the tipping point in vaccinations. Hospital cases are not increasing. Just because Ozland failed don't think that we have. The number of cases in a vaccinated country will always rise as people get back to near normal. We dont need lockdown or bloody masks. Just been to the medical centre and not a mask in sight.
RIVM gets its data from fairies? You better send a sternly worded complaint to the Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieu.

Once again, positive tests = Covid-19 infections.

And no, the rise is not just due to more tests. It is also due to a greater percentage of the tested people returning positive results.

               Week                         Tests done         Positive tests       Percentage of positive tests
21-06-2021 - 27-06-2021               114634                  2795                            2.4
28-06-2021 - 04-07-2021               146638                  4100                            2.8
05-07-2021 - 11-07-2021               192141                 16772                           8.7


Link: https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files ... _final.pdf p.53

My guess is that the percentage for the week from 12-07-2021 - 18-07-2021 will have risen well above the 10% mark. What is yours?

Image

Link: https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files ... _final.pdf p.52

To be sure, the Australian government's lackadaisical approach to acquiring vaccines is a huge failure, but going by results we are doing heaps better than the Netherlands, especially so since the Dutch government's decision on the 26th of June to relax crowd controls. That is turning out to be a disastrous one.

Image
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:43 am

A load of bollocks. The vast majority is the youth who went out in vast numbers to festivals and clubs. They are not ill and only have minor problems. Hospital numbers are still falling. IC's are empty. Comparison for control is pointless as the regions are completely different. 95% of all over 55's are fully vaccinated.
It remains fairy data only vaccination is pure fact which is where Ozland failed.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:49 am

Fairy bollocks!
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Galaxian » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:48 am

Hermit Rational Skepticism wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:17 am
Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?
#5971 Post by Hermit » Feb 17, 2020 4:27 am
It' amazing how many people with absolutely, totally batshit crazy views manage to function outside mental asylums. Rationalia still gets lumbered with missives from Galaxian and Dennis Markuze on frequent occasions.
------------
#5975 Post by Hermit » Feb 17, 2020 7:05 pm
Both Markuze and Galaxian suffer massively from absurd delusions. Those delusions control much of their behaviour. And yet both of them continue to function and survive outside the confines of mental institutions. As long as they constitute no danger to themselves* or others there is no need to section them. That's all I was meaning to say.
You call Galaxian's rare visits to this site frequent? So, who is "batshit crazy"? Your attitude demonstrates that you may happily man a watchtower at a concentration camp, rifle in hand, to do God's work, eh?

Is Dr. Vernon Coleman another nutter in your compilation of demons?

"Why And How They Plan To Kill Seven Billion" By Dr. Vernon Coleman

https://www.bitchute.com/video/tuVKp909V4vk/
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:17 am

Galaxian wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:48 am


Is Dr. Vernon Coleman another nutter?

Yes. And he's not allowed to call himself "Dr."

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:35 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:43 am
A load of bollocks. The vast majority is the youth who went out in vast numbers to festivals and clubs. They are not ill and only have minor problems. Hospital numbers are still falling. IC's are empty. Comparison for control is pointless as the regions are completely different. 95% of all over 55's are fully vaccinated.
It remains fairy data only vaccination is pure fact which is where Ozland failed.
Calling RIVM data a load of bollocks again? Lol.

Hospital numbers are rising
The day before yesterday (12 July) 31 new hospital admissions were reported. That is higher than the average of the past seven days (11).
and so are ICs.
Intensive care admissions reported on one day
6 intensive care-admissions on one day. Alert value: 10 admissions per day.
4 higher than the average of the past 7 days (2)
Value of Monday, 12 July
The pure facts are rolling 7 day averages of daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people for

Netherlands: 433.53
Australia: 3.18

That's a 133.33 to 1 ratio.
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