Hate Crime Against White People

[pErvinalia]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

No one is saying that there aren't people with different skin colours.

[pErvinalia]

Race is whatever people think it is, whether or not it has any scientific basis is immaterial.

But that's the point we are making to 42. He says, how can there be racism if there aren't races? That's how.

[Forty Two]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

No one is saying that there aren't people with different skin colours.

Race doesn't have to be genetic to exist, fucknuts.

[Forty Two]

Race is whatever people think it is, whether or not it has any scientific basis is immaterial.

But that's the point we are making to 42. He says, how can there be racism if there aren't races? That's how.

People aren't entitled to affirmative action because they "think" they are black. They're entitled to affirmative action because they ARE black. And a white person applying for affirmative action treatment or minority business owner status and claiming to be black is fraud, even if they "think" they are black. They're not black.

It's not as if you just do away with the words you're going to do away with the group differences. The names came to be because of identified differences. Sure, it's not a clear genetic category because there are often more gene variations within the Caucasoid group itself then, necessarily, between groups. But that doesn't change the fact that there are specific qualities generally held by Caucasoids that are different than those held by blacks or Australoids.

It's not like nobody would be able to see who the white people were if it wasn't for a bunch of made up words.

[pErvinalia]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

No one is saying that there aren't people with different skin colours.

Race doesn't have to be genetic to exist, fucknuts.

What does that have to do with anything? Skin colour is a genetic trait.

[DaveDodo007]

Give them enough rope, the rise of the right isn't happening in a vacuum.

[pErvinalia]

Race is whatever people think it is, whether or not it has any scientific basis is immaterial.

But that's the point we are making to 42. He says, how can there be racism if there aren't races? That's how.

People aren't entitled to affirmative action because they "think" they are black. They're entitled to affirmative action because they ARE black. And a white person applying for affirmative action treatment or minority business owner status and claiming to be black is fraud, even if they "think" they are black.

You may want to look that up. I'm not sure how it is in the US but here there is the concept of a white Aboriginal (i.e. a white black person). That's why I made the point earlier that these sorts of laws are more about ethnicity than skin colour.

[Forty Two]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

Nobody thinks that blondes, brunettes and redheads are races, and yet people can be bigots about 'dumb blondes' and gingers as being one of Satan's minions.

Sure, but being a bigot is not the same as being a racist. I just used the example of hair color to show how a category can have less than bright lines between them without ceasing to exist or being relegated to myth. it was an analogy.

If one did live in a society where gingers were traditionally treated as second-class citizens then whether one was of the full-ginge or of the strawberry-blonde would be important. The classification of people into discrete groups according to the colour of their pubes is just as arbitrary as classifying people into discrete races according to some vague (and often unspecified) notions about what typifies this-or-that class or subset thereof.

Arbitrariness does not render a classification "mythical." There are redheads. But, when redhead stops and brunette begins is not exactly clear. There is general cultural agreement on what a redhead is, but there may be hair colors that appear close to the line to one person and on the other side of the line to another. Yet, we still have groups with different hair colors.

What should we say? There's no such thing as hair color categories? We can't come up with criteria to exactly determine when honey blonde is actually on the reddish side of the line, so hair color categories are a myth?

Race is whatever people think it is, whether or not it has any scientific basis is immaterial. If someone says "look at that cracker" nobody looks at the black dude. You don't solve a problem be defining it out of existence.

Indeed. You solve problems by discussing them, trying to come to a rational understanding of the issues and then working through towards a solution that everyone can live with. To say that the concept of race is rooted in assumptions carried on the back of tradition not to define it out of existence - it just points to the subjective and arbitrary nature of the idea and how it's a poor basis by which to distinguish between people and/or decide on how they are or should be treated.

I agree, it's no basis to judge people's character or treat them differently, but that's a different issue, as you pointed out.

[Forty Two]

Race is whatever people think it is, whether or not it has any scientific basis is immaterial.

But that's the point we are making to 42. He says, how can there be racism if there aren't races? That's how.

People aren't entitled to affirmative action because they "think" they are black. They're entitled to affirmative action because they ARE black. And a white person applying for affirmative action treatment or minority business owner status and claiming to be black is fraud, even if they "think" they are black.

You may want to look that up. I'm not sure how it is in the US but here there is the concept of a white Aboriginal (i.e. a white black person). That's why I made the point earlier that these sorts of laws are more about ethnicity than skin colour.

The white black person still is racially black. He's not some white guy named Trent.

[pErvinalia]

i.e. its about ethnicity, not necessarily traditional racial traits.

[Brian Peacock]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

Nobody thinks that blondes, brunettes and redheads are races, and yet people can be bigots about 'dumb blondes' and gingers as being one of Satan's minions.

Sure, but being a bigot is not the same as being a racist. I just used the example of hair color to show how a category can have less than bright lines between them without ceasing to exist or being relegated to myth. it was an analogy.

If one did live in a society where gingers were traditionally treated as second-class citizens then whether one was of the full-ginge or of the strawberry-blonde would be important. The classification of people into discrete groups according to the colour of their pubes is just as arbitrary as classifying people into discrete races according to some vague (and often unspecified) notions about what typifies this-or-that class or subset thereof.

Arbitrariness does not render a classification "mythical." There are redheads. But, when redhead stops and brunette begins is not exactly clear. There is general cultural agreement on what a redhead is, but there may be hair colors that appear close to the line to one person and on the other side of the line to another. Yet, we still have groups with different hair colors.

What should we say? There's no such thing as hair color categories? We can't come up with criteria to exactly determine when honey blonde is actually on the reddish side of the line, so hair color categories are a myth?

What you talkin' 'bout Willis? The scary-quoted myth is that race denotes discrete classes of humans. Did you read my earlier post when I talked about noting differences and commonalities as being different that classifying people into discrete classes? You started off saying that some particular, but wholly undefined things are 'racial classification specifiers', specifically (and tautologically) the things which label the class being the very things which determine the class. Then you reduced to a plea that something-or-other makes a race a specific class, although you won't or can't say what that or they might actually be, only adding that racial classifications represent real, bounded classes because the law relies on them (although you've provided no support for that). Now you've slipped into saying that race distinctions are essentially arbitrary and fuzzy - but no less real for that. You've busted your own myth that races are discrete classes but are still arguing that races are a real; discrete classes, just ones with fuzzy edges. If race distinctions are arbitrary then what are you arguing against? If races are real then why are you reluctant to provide or demonstrate the conditions which, when met, place one person into a particular race-group and thereby exclude them from all other race-groups?



I'm now going to ask you the same question I've been putting to you over the last few pages, and have just asked again, but put a different way. Let's assume for the sake of argument that races are real and that one individual is a typical member of a race-group and that another, while still being a member of that same group, is atypical. On what basis do we classify the atypical individual into the class exemplified by the typical member?

If you're inclined to repeat that races are real, but fuzzy because people are different by different degrees, then I will just take it that you're unwilling to engage on the matter at hand, so don't waste your time.

[rainbow]

There are blondes, brunettes and redheads, even though at the margins, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a person is fits in one of those groups. They're still humans, though. These are not "myths."

No one is saying that there aren't people with different skin colours.

Race doesn't have to be genetic to exist, fucknuts.

Give this one up, while you still have some dignity

You are really making an arse of yourself.

[rainbow]

Give them enough rope, the rise of the right isn't happening in a vacuum.

No, but the space between the ears of a right-winger is the closest approximation to a vacuum.

[Brian Peacock]

[mistermack]

Race doesn't have to be genetic to exist, fucknuts.

Where the fuck did you get that idea?