Attitudes towards the police

[Pappa]

I don't need a spokesperson thanks.

So you refuse the right to legal council?

[Cunt]

I think the blind acceptance of any law is an extraordinarily dangerous thing.

take proper steps to complain/protest/use the democratic process to attempt to get them changed.

seriously, thats funny. "the democratic process". canaduh almost legalized a few years back till the US came here and told us we couldn't, so much for the "democratic process".

Canada is NOT a 'democracy', the States IS. So this is funnier than you intended.

I worked in a store in Calgary years ago. We had a security system which included a button on a chain which we were to press if we needed help. We were told that if we pressed it, the security company would call and, if we didn't respond in a specific way, they would call the police. Sounds good, right?

I accidentally pressed the button once (without realizing it) and the phone rang. The voice on the other end, with a fake-sounding French accent said "This is the Calgary police. We have heard an alarm. What are you wearing?"

The store was an adult novelty store. I got LOTS of 'what are you wearing' type calls. I said I had no way to know if the voice on the phone was the police, and explained that I didn't have time to chat.

The French voice said "go out of the front of your store so the officers can see you." Again, I declined, and said that if I saw an officer out front (I was looking out the window at this point and did not see any) then I would go talk to him.

The voice on the phone hung up, after trying a few more times to get me to say what I was wearing, or to leave the store. Shortly after a cop pulled up, so I went to the front door to talk to him. It was rather one-sided.

The cop said that if EVER someone identified themselves as a cop I should do WHATEVER he said IMMEDIATELY. He was quite aggressive and wasn't listening to anything I said. I heard him out, then asked him if he wanted to know why I wasn't expecting a cop to call, and why I wouldn't leave my store for just anyone. He said "This conversation is OVER" and walked away.

He never looked into the store, or came in to see if there were robbers in there with me. He had no way to know if I was a robber, or a clerk. The customers in the store were glared at as they left (about 15 minutes later) but nothing else.

From then on, I told the boss that if he required me to call the cops, I would be fucking quitting. I said that I would call him if there was a criminal matter, and HE could come to the store to deal with them. He resisted a bit, but then allowed it. I would not call the cops again for help in that store, though I did call on some friends now and then. None of them, to my knowledge, were 'hippies'.

When the police have cultivated an image such as they have, they should not be surprised when few people trust them. I call on my friends when I need help.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I saw two supposed clear thinkers advocating absolute subservience to such laws I commented.

Where the FUCK did I say anything about "absolute subservience". You really are making this shit up as you go along and it's pissing me off.

Then say what you actually think.

I did. You added shit to it to make me look like a slave of the machine. Idiot.

[Robert_S]

I look at them as some guys that the city/county/state hired to keep an eye on things. They can be racist, sexist, classist, homophobic or whatever, but that just reflects the society that they come from.

I've seen them be very helpful and cool on some occasions and downright assholes on others.

[Tero]

My concept of the usefulness of suburban cops


plus they gave me a ticket at a speed trap, just behind the 30mph sign and a curve. I last had a ticket in 1979.

[mistermack]

I look at them as some guys that the city/county/state hired to keep an eye on things. They can be racist, sexist, classist, homophobic or whatever, but that just reflects the society that they come from.

I've seen them be very helpful and cool on some occasions and downright assholes on others.

Yes the police reflect the society they come from. But that's missing the point. As private citizens they can be all those things, but when they are given the police powers, they have to stop being all those things. It comes with the job.
You can't just shrug your shoulders and say "that's human nature". If someone wants to stay an asshole, they should stay out of the police force.
And the compaints procedure is a farce. It's designed to wear you out.
.

[Robert_S]

I look at them as some guys that the city/county/state hired to keep an eye on things. They can be racist, sexist, classist, homophobic or whatever, but that just reflects the society that they come from.

I've seen them be very helpful and cool on some occasions and downright assholes on others.

Yes the police reflect the society they come from. But that's missing the point. As private citizens they can be all those things, but when they are given the police powers, they have to stop being all those things. It comes with the job.
You can't just shrug your shoulders and say "that's human nature". If someone wants to stay an asshole, they should stay out of the police force.
And the compaints procedure is a farce. It's designed to wear you out.
.

I'm not shrugging my shoulders, but I don't see how a racist prick is going to be other than that when they clock in to their job. They'll only maybe hide it a little bit more.

But what I'm saying is that cops aren't the root of the problem of cops abusing authority. Politicians and ordinary citizens are. In places that don't particularly care about pot smoking, you don't get cops busting down he doors of pot smokers. I areas that don't tolerate racism, you get fewer incidents of racial bias on the part of the police.

They're just some guys that got hired to do a job. What that job is depends greatly on who pays the salaries.

[mistermack]

They're just some guys that got hired to do a job. What that job is depends greatly on who pays the salaries.

It's not just a job. It's a job that gives you power. That's why it's a special case.
That's why we expect higher standards. If I grab a woman's tit, she can kick me in the balls. If a cop grabs her tit, she could end up getting locked up, at the mercy of the same guy who grabbed her tit.
That's just one example, there are millions of examples like that.
They have to match much higher standards, for very good reasons.
.

[Robert_S]

They're just some guys that got hired to do a job. What that job is depends greatly on who pays the salaries.

It's not just a job. It's a job that gives you power. That's why it's a special case.
That's why we expect higher standards. If I grab a woman's tit, she can kick me in the balls. If a cop grabs her tit, she could end up getting locked up, at the mercy of the same guy who grabbed her tit.
That's just one example, there are millions of examples like that.
They have to match much higher standards, for very good reasons.
.

I get your point and it's not unique to cops. If the guy working at the fast food counter is stoned, it's no bid deal. If the guy operating the crane is... that could be bad.

The thing is, it requires the whole community to hold the police to those standards. A highly misogynist society is going to tolerate more police groping than a more enlightened one.

I'm speaking more about expectations in the sense of predicting what will actually happen in any particular case, not in the sense of moral expectations.

[charlou]

An institution which has been granted or assumed power and authority over society and abuses it or allows its members to abuse it or covers up such abuse has no moral right to the power and authority it holds. When an institution has established itself as corrupt and above/outside the law, or a law unto itself, trust and respect for its members are damaged and lost. That damage takes a long time and effort to remediate and is all the more difficult given the distinct us/them power imbalance that is inherent in the system and how that is implemented and perceived.

[Trolldor]

Obey the law while it's the law.
If you want it changed, speak to your representatives, get community demonstration organised.
Don't keep breaking the law and then whine and bitch about the police oppressing you because they're doing what they're supposed to. It's fucking stupid.
We don't live in totallitarian states.

On the matter of corruption, the risk for whistle blowers is enormous. They need more protection, things like anonymity.

A police force is necessary. Everyone here can already think of moments in which they would very much prefer the presence of a police force.

[Robert_S]

Obey the law while it's the law.
If you want it changed, speak to your representatives, get community demonstration organised.
Don't keep breaking the law and then whine and bitch about the police oppressing you because they're doing what they're supposed to. It's fucking stupid.
We don't live in totallitarian states.

On the matter of corruption, the risk for whistle blowers is enormous. They need more protection, things like anonymity.

A police force is necessary. Everyone here can already think of moments in which they would very much prefer the presence of a police force.

The thing is, we citizens should make sure our legislatures pass laws that will be respected. If too many people have contempt for the law, like in the US alcohol prohibition era and the drug laws today, then that sows disrespect for the law in society from which our police are recruited. So, we end up with a bunch of hypocrites in uniform.

[Hermit]

When an institution has established itself as corrupt and above/outside the law, or a law unto itself, trust and respect for its members are damaged and lost.

There always will be a minority of criminals within any grouping of people. The police forces are no exception. What really wrecks their reputation and erodes trust in them, though, is when they are run by corrupt governments. In Australia we have two textbook examples of that; Under Bjelke Peterson, Queensland Premier from 1968 to 1987, and to a lesser extent Askin, New South Wales premier from 1965 to 1975, the respective police forces became the henchmen for and protectors of those Premiers' political and business cronies. In return they were allowed to engage in whatever freelance graft, blackmail and theft opportunity sent their way. Corruption became endemic and systematic because of the venal nature of the governments we voted into office and kept re-electing. I think we voters are at least in part responsible for the shortcomings of the police we are so fond of complaining about.

[sandinista]

Obey the law while it's the law.
If you want it changed, speak to your representatives, get community demonstration organised.
Don't keep breaking the law and then whine and bitch about the police oppressing you because they're doing what they're supposed to. It's fucking stupid.
We don't live in totallitarian states.

On the matter of corruption, the risk for whistle blowers is enormous. They need more protection, things like anonymity.

A police force is necessary. Everyone here can already think of moments in which they would very much prefer the presence of a police force.

a police force is only necessary in society when you divide the people into those who have and those who aint got.

[Trolldor]

Not even close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer