Guns used for lawful self defense

[Seth]

photo1.JPG

Good to finally have a back of the head to the name.

That's the only reason I posted the photo. If I'd posted a full-face shot, I'd have to kill all of you...

[Blind groper]

if you were my son, I'd disown you for the cowardice and ignorance you've shown here. .

My own observations are, that people who resort to this kind of insult as a tactic, are people who have no valid argument at all.

Add to that.
It is impossible to insult someone against their will. I also believe that the only people who can insult me are those I respect. So I am quite safe here.

[Seth]

if you were my son, I'd disown you for the cowardice and ignorance you've shown here. .

My own observations are, that people who resort to this kind of insult as a tactic, are people who have no valid argument at all.

Oh, you mean like calling people you don't know "psychopaths?" That sort of tactic? I would have to agree, which is precisely why I did it, to illuminate the invalidity of your argument.

[JimC]

if you were my son, I'd disown you for the cowardice and ignorance you've shown here. .

My own observations are, that people who resort to this kind of insult as a tactic, are people who have no valid argument at all.

Add to that.
It is impossible to insult someone against their will. I also believe that the only people who can insult me are those I respect. So I am quite safe here.

[Blind groper]

Oh, you mean like calling people you don't know "psychopaths?"

The difference is that I am serious, not simply insulting. Seth, you have consistently expressed sentiments that translate as : " I do not give a shit for anyone."

That is what defines a psychopath. A psychopath is a person who has no feeling for other humans. A psychopath regards other people simply as a resource to be exploited. There are many psychopaths in society - estimated as 3% of the normal population (and 30% of the prison population). However, psychopaths are not necessarily criminal, or even violent. They are simply people who do not give a shit about anyone else. Sound familiar?

[Seth]

Oh, you mean like calling people you don't know "psychopaths?"

The difference is that I am serious, not simply insulting.

I'm serious too. You're a fuckwit of monumental proportions who doesn't deserve to live in freedom.

Seth, you have consistently expressed sentiments that translate as : " I do not give a shit for anyone."

And you're a fucking psychopathic liar, because I've never said anything like that. I'm very specific about which people I don't give a shit about, and that includes people like you.

That is what defines a psychopath. A psychopath is a person who has no feeling for other humans. A psychopath regards other people simply as a resource to be exploited. There are many psychopaths in society - estimated as 3% of the normal population (and 30% of the prison population). However, psychopaths are not necessarily criminal, or even violent. They are simply people who do not give a shit about anyone else. Sound familiar?

[/quote]

Nope. Sounds to me like your arguments are completely invalid.

[aspire1670]

If you want a good 'sporting' rifle that would double nicely as a commie killer, get yourself a rifle chambered in .338 Lapua (Lapua not Win Mag). They're good for anti-personnel and anti-material (take out a humvee at least). The Sako TRG-42 is an excellent choice but there are plenty of options out there. A .308 (commercial NATO 7.62x54) is nice, but you have to engage in under 700 yards whereas the .338 Lapua lets you reliably engage at 1500 yards and packs a mean punch and it'll blow right through an body armour they may be wearing. Also good for killing zombies.

That's exactly what I have...a Sako TRG-42 in .338 LM, with a US Optics SN3 5-25 EREK. Shot it at 750 meters at Fort Benning on the Sniper School Burroughs range after the International Sniper Competition ended, during the vendor shoots (both night and day). Gonged the 12" steel at 750 meters three times and hit four of four steel targets at 700 to 800 meters as well as a bunch of closer targets. That's me:

photo1.JPG

Don't know why it's displaying upside down, I tried to rotate it and reload it three times. If some Mod could flip it around I'd appreciate it.

Also shot my LaRue OBR in .308 with a prototype Leupold Mark 6 1 to 6 with a CNVDLR clip on in front during the night shoot out to 400 meters, under horrible no-moon lighting conditions.

Next year they are expanding the Burroughs range to beyond 1500 meters, and have started clear-cutting the trees already. Next year's competition should be even better.

Fifteen hundred metres! Bloody hell, that's a big basement you live in, Seth.

[aspire1670]

If you want a good 'sporting' rifle that would double nicely as a commie killer, get yourself a rifle chambered in .338 Lapua (Lapua not Win Mag). They're good for anti-personnel and anti-material (take out a humvee at least). The Sako TRG-42 is an excellent choice but there are plenty of options out there. A .308 (commercial NATO 7.62x54) is nice, but you have to engage in under 700 yards whereas the .338 Lapua lets you reliably engage at 1500 yards and packs a mean punch and it'll blow right through an body armour they may be wearing. Also good for killing zombies.

That's exactly what I have...a Sako TRG-42 in .338 LM, with a US Optics SN3 5-25 EREK. Shot it at 750 meters at Fort Benning on the Sniper School Burroughs range after the International Sniper Competition ended, during the vendor shoots (both night and day). Gonged the 12" steel at 750 meters three times and hit four of four steel targets at 700 to 800 meters as well as a bunch of closer targets. That's me:

photo1.JPG

Don't know why it's displaying upside down, I tried to rotate it and reload it three times. If some Mod could flip it around I'd appreciate it.

Also shot my LaRue OBR in .308 with a prototype Leupold Mark 6 1 to 6 with a CNVDLR clip on in front during the night shoot out to 400 meters, under horrible no-moon lighting conditions.

Next year they are expanding the Burroughs range to beyond 1500 meters, and have started clear-cutting the trees already. Next year's competition should be even better.

Fifteen hundred metres! Bloody hell, that's a big basement you live in, Seth.

[Seth]

If you want a good 'sporting' rifle that would double nicely as a commie killer, get yourself a rifle chambered in .338 Lapua (Lapua not Win Mag). They're good for anti-personnel and anti-material (take out a humvee at least). The Sako TRG-42 is an excellent choice but there are plenty of options out there. A .308 (commercial NATO 7.62x54) is nice, but you have to engage in under 700 yards whereas the .338 Lapua lets you reliably engage at 1500 yards and packs a mean punch and it'll blow right through an body armour they may be wearing. Also good for killing zombies.

That's exactly what I have...a Sako TRG-42 in .338 LM, with a US Optics SN3 5-25 EREK. Shot it at 750 meters at Fort Benning on the Sniper School Burroughs range after the International Sniper Competition ended, during the vendor shoots (both night and day). Gonged the 12" steel at 750 meters three times and hit four of four steel targets at 700 to 800 meters as well as a bunch of closer targets. That's me:

photo1.JPG

Don't know why it's displaying upside down, I tried to rotate it and reload it three times. If some Mod could flip it around I'd appreciate it.

Also shot my LaRue OBR in .308 with a prototype Leupold Mark 6 1 to 6 with a CNVDLR clip on in front during the night shoot out to 400 meters, under horrible no-moon lighting conditions.

Next year they are expanding the Burroughs range to beyond 1500 meters, and have started clear-cutting the trees already. Next year's competition should be even better.

Fifteen hundred metres! Bloody hell, that's a big basement you live in, Seth.

Fort Benning is enormous, it's about 30 miles in its longest dimension.

I shoot 1500 meters all the time out here in Colorado, lots of wide open spaces.

[Blind groper]

Nope. Sounds to me like your arguments are completely invalid.

I have to make my tentative judgments based on the data I have. The only data I have about you, Seth, is the opinions and sentiments you have expressed. And yes, you have said things that translate as not giving a shit about people. You use the phrase "fuck 'em" quite a bit, which says you do not give a shit.

Until the data implies otherwise, my tentative conclusion is that you are a psychopath.

I did a bit of research a few months back into this condition called psychopathy, since a person I know was showing all the symptoms. Interestingly, most psychopaths, once they know that is what they are, and know what makes a psychopath, are quite pleased. They feel that they, in their immunity from compassion, and their ability to 'better themselves' by exploiting others, are somehow superior. Or at least that they alone are doing what is smart. So psychopaths are also frequently very arrogant.

[FBM]

FBM

Your table is very misleading, and should not be used to make a point. In fact, the leading cause of all deaths in the USA is heart disease at 27%. Salmonella is just the leading cause of death from infectious causes, and is way, way, down on the list of all causes. The other items on your list will also be well out of place.

There is no argument about guns not being at the top, except for certain age groups,(mainly young people, where they are in the top 4). However, it would help if you checked your sources a bit better before posting.

You are correct. I was tired and sloppy.I deserve a sound wrist-slapping.

But you still don't have gun-related homicide or suicide as factors in even the top ten leading causes of death. If I were a policy-maker whose job it was to devise the most effective strategy for reducing mortality rates, I think I'd start at the top of the list and work down. I haven't finished my first pot of coffee yet, but I think the CDC article stated that the top four on the list accounted for 66% of all deaths. I might consider some of the lower causes of death if there were a reason to believe that there was a realistic, practical and economical way to quickly knock it off the list, but I'd say reducing the number of malpractice deaths at hospitals would come before anything related to handgun ownership. You'd need a Constitutional convention (or something, don't really know) to even be able to legally start trying, seeing as the SCOTUS has upheld the constitutionality of private firearm ownership. Just not realistic, practical, economical or politically possible, and even if the gumit were to force it on us, you still wouldn't save any lives overall, because a lot of lives would be lost in the effort. And even if that weren't true, you still wouldn't be reducing overall mortality rates by very much, percentage-wise. Near-total waste of time in just about every respect from a policy-making perspective.

[Seth]

Nope. Sounds to me like your arguments are completely invalid.

I have to make my tentative judgments based on the data I have.

No, you choose to make judgments because it suits your personal biases.

The only data I have about you, Seth, is the opinions and sentiments you have expressed.

Indeed.

And yes, you have said things that translate as not giving a shit about people.

Some, specifically identified people, which you then fallaciously expand into a false presumption that I mean ALL people which you then misuse to engage in abusive name-calling while lamely trying to justify your bad behavior.

You use the phrase "fuck 'em" quite a bit, which says you do not give a shit.

Yup. Fuck 'em, and fuck you. But you have to be specific about the "'em" I'm discussing if you want to make a rational judgment, which obviously you don't. You're a master at simply ignoring anything that runs counter to your idiotic preconceived notions and biases. And as demonstrated here, you're a mendacious, dishonest, despicable, disreputable fraud who misstates, mischaracterizes and deliberately misunderstands clear statements so that you can try to justify your mindless, thoughtless and rude behavior.

Until the data implies otherwise, my tentative conclusion is that you are a psychopath.

And my firm conclusion is that you're a microcephalic dunce and a pathological prevaricator who couldn't argue his way out of a wet tissue if his life depended upon it.

I did a bit of research a few months back into this condition called psychopathy, since a person I know was showing all the symptoms.

You know what they say about amateurs trying to play psychiatrists don't you? You should look in the mirror before you presume to analyze anybody else.

Interestingly, most psychopaths, once they know that is what they are, and know what makes a psychopath, are quite pleased. They feel that they, in their immunity from compassion, and their ability to 'better themselves' by exploiting others, are somehow superior. Or at least that they alone are doing what is smart. So psychopaths are also frequently very arrogant.

[/quote]

Problem is you're unable to distinguish intentional needling and hyperbole used as a rhetorical device in an on-line debate from reality, which gives me a rather clear view of your mental health issues.

Pseudo-physician, heal thyself.

[Blind groper]

Yup. Fuck 'em, and fuck you. But you have to be specific about the "'em" I'm discussing if you want to make a rational judgment, which obviously you don't.

What comes to mind immediately is your stated attitude to those poor, sad individuals who attempt suicide. You said "fuck 'em" and "Let them die." Not a very nice sentiment, and not one that implies any caring for other people.

[FBM]

Cause of death (Based on the Tenth Revision, International Classification of Diseases, Second Edition, 2004)

1 Diseases of heart (I00-I09,I11,I13,I20-I51)
599,413
24.6
195.2

2 Malignant neoplasms (C00-C97)
567,628
23.3
184.9

3 Chronic lower respiratory diseases (J40-J47)
137,353
5.6
44.7

4 Cerebrovascular diseases (I60-I69)
128,842
5.3
42.0

5 Accidents (unintentional injuries) (V01-X59,Y85-Y86)
118,021
4.8
38.4

6 Alzheimer's disease (G30)
79,003
3.2
25.7

7 Diabetes mellitus (E10-E14)
68,705
2.8
22.4

8 Influenza and pneumonia (J09-J18)
53,692
2.2
17.5

9 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (N00-N07,N17-N19,N25-N27)
48,935
2.0
15.9

10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) (*U03,X60-X84,Y87.0)
36,909
1.5
12.0

11 Septicemia (A40-A41)
35,639
1.5
11.6

12 Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis (K70,K73-K74)
30,558
1.3
10.0

13 Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (I10,I12,I15)
25,734
1.1
8.4

14 Parkinson's disease (G20-G21)
20,565
0.8
6.7

15 Assault (homicide) (*U01-*U02,X85-Y09,Y87.1)
16,799
0.7
5.5
...
All other causes (Residual)
469,367
19.3
152.9

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK9_2009.pdf

Suicide did rank #10 here, but heart disease and cancer account for 48% of all deaths. There's a big drop in numbers even between #2 and 3. By the time you get to the stats for #10, you have to start wondering how much of a "nationwide crisis" it really is. And not all of those are even (hand)gun-related, so by the time you get done with the math, banning handguns would just be a drop in the bucket. Hardly worth the bloodshed that would ensue if the gumit were to try to disarm the entire public by force, which is what it would take in the current political/cultural reality.

"Assault (homicide)" couldn't even beat out Parkinson's, and that's including all homicides, not just gun-related ones. We should form a committee about this septicemia crisis, I think. It's killing a lot of people and I'm pretty sure we could do something about that without causing a nationwide shootout in the process.

[Blind groper]

FBM

The single action that would save the most lives would be to attack the tobacco smoking habit. It kills via cancers, heart disease and strokes, and respiratory disease. The second biggest thing is to improve diets, and increase the incidence of healthy exercise.

However, that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about guns.