Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by laklak » Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:43 pm

New York City is going to implement some sort of vac passport, you'll need one to enter any restaurant, show, etc. It is bound to generate court challenges. The worst part is not MORE FUCKING NEW YORKERS will be moving down here, not like we don't have enough of the motherfuckers already.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by JimC » Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:16 pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-05/ ... /100351492
Fruit and vegetable processor SPC has become the first Australian company to mandate vaccines for all onsite staff and visitors.

The Shepparton-based cannery wants all its 450 onsite workers to be fully vaccinated by November, in what could be a legal test-case for the country.

SPC chair Hussein Rifai told News Breakfast the company had implemented very strict COVID-control protocols but the Delta variant demands a different response.

"We believe that the only way that we can get out and protect our employees and our customers, and the communities in which we work is to go to the vaccine," he said.

SPC will give its staff paid vaccination leave and up to two days of special leave to recover if they become unwell after receiving the shot.

They have six weeks to book their first vaccination or risk being barred from on-site work.

Company-mandated vaccines are becoming increasingly common in the United States, with Microsoft, Google Washington, BlackRock and Delta airlines amongst those requiring staff to have the jab.

However, until now in Australia all vaccine mandates for workforces such as the aged care and health care sectors have been made by governments under public health orders.

But as a food production company, Mr Rifai said it was essential all the company's onsite workers have the maximum level of protection.

"We are comparing ourselves to essential services such as the aged [care] people and the front-line people," he said.

"We believe that it's a precedent for companies to ask their employees to do something that's reasonable to protect them, protect their co-workers, and protect the society that they're in."

Safe Work Australia's guidance is that in most cases it isn't "reasonably practicable" for employers to require staff to be vaccinated.

However, the risk profile of the particular industry and state-based health and safety requirements could also be factors in whether the company's vaccine mandate plan will stand up to any possible legal challenges.

Privately, business leaders have been discussing the possibility of company vaccine mandates and the SPC case could become a test case.

Last week, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said he wanted governments to mandate all airline staff to be vaccinated.

Unions have been broadly opposed to company-mandated vaccinations, saying it should be left to health professionals.

But Mr Rifai said SPC had consulted with workers and unions and received "a good reception" when they communicated the plan to employees.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:52 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-05/ ... /100352064
The Biden administration is developing a plan to require nearly all foreign visitors to the United States to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 as part of eventually lifting travel restrictions into the US.

The White House wants to reopen travel, which would boost business for the airlines and tourism industry, but is not ready to immediately lift restrictions because of the rising COVID-19 case load and highly transmissible COVID-19 Delta variant, a White House official said.

The Biden administration has interagency groups working "to have a new system ready for when we can reopen travel," the official said.

The plan includes "a phased approach that over time will mean, with limited exceptions, that foreign nationals traveling to the United States (from all countries) need to be fully vaccinated".
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:59 am

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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:04 am

What intrigues me is the fact that both governments and private corporations are involved in the decisions about mandating vaccination in a variety of situations/employments. Hopefully this will confuse libertarians... :tea:
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:09 am

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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:28 pm

Libertarians are confused enough already. :|
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm

Sure, but government and the private sector only ever seem to work against the little guy. I've given thousands to businesses in industries which only exist as a consequence of regulations. Regulations which don't seem to require results. Now, what are the odds that a bit of digging will reveal that there is no separation between the industry and the regulators?

--great fucking plan really
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by laklak » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:06 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
--great fucking plan really
Yep. One of the biggest industries supporting mandatory garbage recycling, and which is largely responsible for those little numbers on the bottom of your plastic bottle? Oil. Why? Because it's a bullshit scam, and only about 10% of all plastic waste is actually recycled, because it doesn't fucking work very well. So we feel all warm and fuzzy about using plastic shit because we have to put it in a separate container, therefore we use more plastic, the oil companies pump more oil to make plastic and get even richer.

We're stupid as shit.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Seabass » Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:05 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
Sure, but government and the private sector only ever seem to work against the little guy. I've given thousands to businesses in industries which only exist as a consequence of regulations. Regulations which don't seem to require results. Now, what are the odds that a bit of digging will reveal that there is no separation between the industry and the regulators?

--great fucking plan really
Does Scot Dutchy need to remind you that it's not like this everywhere? :bored:
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:52 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
Sure, but government and the private sector only ever seem to work against the little guy. I've given thousands to businesses in industries which only exist as a consequence of regulations. Regulations which don't seem to require results. Now, what are the odds that a bit of digging will reveal that there is no separation between the industry and the regulators?
Banking and finance for example? Energy? Fossil fuel production? Aviation? Arms? The carceral system? Those who lobby for industry are regularly taken into government as recompense for donations, often in positions where they can initiate regulatory reviews and/or outsource the development of law and regulations to 'experts' in industry in ways that have a direct impact on their area of interest. Thereafter all the failures and calamities of the sector are blamed on the government and on the 'regulations' and 'red tape' they concocted to make their own lives easier and more profitable. The biggie is the tax system of course, which is something that is regulated and gamed by all the major players across all economic sectors, and their auditors and accountants.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:06 am

Seabass wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:05 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
Sure, but government and the private sector only ever seem to work against the little guy. I've given thousands to businesses in industries which only exist as a consequence of regulations. Regulations which don't seem to require results. Now, what are the odds that a bit of digging will reveal that there is no separation between the industry and the regulators?

--great fucking plan really
Does Scot Dutchy need to remind you that it's not like this everywhere? :bored:
Really, somewhere the little guy doesn't get screwed? I thought even in paradise the rich got richer --no? How does that happen if there aren't artificial barriers to promote one group's interests over all others?
The latest fad is a poverty social. Every woman must wear calico,
and every man his old clothes. In addition each is fined 25 cents if
he or she does not have a patch on his or her clothing. If these
parties become a regular thing, says an exchange, won't there be
a good chance for newspaper men to shine?

The Silver State. 1894.

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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Seabass » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:30 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:06 am
Seabass wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:05 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
Sure, but government and the private sector only ever seem to work against the little guy. I've given thousands to businesses in industries which only exist as a consequence of regulations. Regulations which don't seem to require results. Now, what are the odds that a bit of digging will reveal that there is no separation between the industry and the regulators?

--great fucking plan really
Does Scot Dutchy need to remind you that it's not like this everywhere? :bored:
Really, somewhere the little guy doesn't get screwed? I thought even in paradise the rich got richer --no? How does that happen if there aren't artificial barriers to promote one group's interests over all others?
Stop thinking about this in reductive binary terms. Little guy gets screwed vs little guy doesn't get screwed. That's not how the world works.

Relative to the US, nearly the entire developed world is better than us when it comes to inequality, quality of life of the lower classes, happiness, social mobility, etc.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by JimC » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:40 am

Lots of red states with huge covid surges and low vaccination rates are fighting hard against anything that encourages vaccination or allows vaccine passports to be used. From an ABC article:
New York, America's biggest city and among the most vaccinated, announced this week that people will need to show proof of vaccination to do things like dine indoors or head to the gym.

Some of America's biggest companies are doing the same.

Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Disney and Walmart have all implemented versions of a vaccine mandate for staff.

And Biden has done the same, with rules now requiring all federal workers to get a vaccine or take regular coronavirus tests.

But well before these fresh efforts to blunt the spread of the Delta variant and preserve America's return to normalcy were rolled out, the opposition to them was in the making.

At least 34 states have introduced laws that would prevent requiring residents to show proof of vaccination and at least 13 have already passed versions of them into law.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis (who features frequently in polls as Republican voters pick who to run for president in 2024 behind Donald Trump) has been vocal in his opposition to anything that resembles a vaccine mandate.

"In Florida, your personal choice regarding vaccinations will be protected and no business or government entity will be able to deny you services based on your decision," he said when signing a bill into law in May.

In Texas, Governor Greg Abbott (another who is talked about as a potential Trump successor) issued an executive order that introduced $1,000 fines for any businesses that enforce mask or vaccine mandates,

According to NPR, a third of all new COVID-19 cases in the US were in just two states — Florida and Texas.
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Re: Vaccination: mandated and/or incentivised

Post by Hermit » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:22 am

laklak wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:06 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:18 pm
--great fucking plan really
Yep. One of the biggest industries supporting mandatory garbage recycling, and which is largely responsible for those little numbers on the bottom of your plastic bottle? Oil. Why? Because it's a bullshit scam, and only about 10% of all plastic waste is actually recycled, because it doesn't fucking work very well. So we feel all warm and fuzzy about using plastic shit because we have to put it in a separate container, therefore we use more plastic, the oil companies pump more oil to make plastic and get even richer.

We're stupid as shit.
Am I the only one to not buy more stuff packaged in plastic because, you know, plastic is purportedly recycled these days? :roll:

It is true that too much plastic finishes up as landfill, littering roadsides or gets swept into the ocean, but in Australia at least the percentage of it being reused keeps increasing.
Queensland achieves first recycled plastic road

Redland City Council is working with Alex Fraser and Suncoast Asphalt to resurface a one-kilometre stretch of road comprising significant amounts of hard plastics and reclaimed asphalt pavement, all while cutting council costs and carbon emissions.

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:06 am
Really, somewhere the little guy doesn't get screwed? I thought even in paradise the rich got richer --no? How does that happen if there aren't artificial barriers to promote one group's interests over all others?
That's not an argument against regulations. It's an argument against bad regulations. Right now tax regulations are indeed tilted in favour of the wealthy. Can you tell me what is improved, and how, if tax regulations were abolished altogether?

I am strongly in favour of regulations that encourage vaccinations. An adequate percentage of vaccinated people can be achieved without regulating "vaccine hesitant" arseholes into concentration camps.
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