The Curious Case of the Fall in Crime.

[Tyrannical]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

That may not be true. It's possible that a large prison population might lead to an increase in crime. A large prison population could act as a better crime school than a small population. If that were the case, when criminals leave prison they'd be better at being criminals and possibly commit more crime.

Who said anything about leave? Prisoners should not be released until a board is convinced they will not re-offend.

[Warren Dew]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

Just consider Detroit part of the prison system.

[Svartalf]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

That may not be true. It's possible that a large prison population might lead to an increase in crime. A large prison population could act as a better crime school than a small population. If that were the case, when criminals leave prison they'd be better at being criminals and possibly commit more crime.

Who said anything about leave? Prisoners should not be released until a board is convinced they will not re-offend.

Habeas corpus and all that... the principle of a prison sentence is that, except for the most terrible crimes, it is a temporary measure, with the understanding that most prisoners will get out of there sooner or later, maybe later for killers, but fairly soon for thieves, conmen, and other reckless drivers. Your proposal of liberation subject to a board is inconstitutional, especially since an administrative (executive) body would be alloaved to overrule a judicial decision.

[Warren Dew]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

That may not be true. It's possible that a large prison population might lead to an increase in crime. A large prison population could act as a better crime school than a small population. If that were the case, when criminals leave prison they'd be better at being criminals and possibly commit more crime.

Who said anything about leave? Prisoners should not be released until a board is convinced they will not re-offend.

Habeas corpus and all that... the principle of a prison sentence is that, except for the most terrible crimes, it is a temporary measure, with the understanding that most prisoners will get out of there sooner or later, maybe later for killers, but fairly soon for thieves, conmen, and other reckless drivers. Your proposal of liberation subject to a board is inconstitutional, especially since an administrative (executive) body would be alloaved to overrule a judicial decision.

Isn't that exactly what's going to happen to Breivik, though?

Me, I prefer "three strikes" type laws, but the principle isn't all that different.

[Blind groper]

As I pointed out, Canada, the Netherlands, and Germany introduced reduced prison sentences, and all three still a reduction in crime rates. The idea that keeping people in prison longer will reduce crime significantly may be shown to be incorrect.

I think that improvements in technology will continue to reduce crime rates. Just think what the improvements in security cameras will do. We already see police security cameras being set up in many areas. With cameras becoming both cheaper, and having more sophisticated electronics attached, giving a more 'intelligent' response, we may see massive further reductions in crime. Mainly because private security cameras will become very common.

What criminal will engage in criminal activity when he is almost certainly being recorded, and a report automatically sent to police?

[Seth]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

Just consider Detroit part of the prison system.

Oh hell yes! Let's go all "Escape from New York" on Detroit's ass.

[Seth]

Having a big prison population also helps reduce crime, though I think the current population is far too small. When it's safe to walk at night alone in Detroit, then I'd say the prison population is just right.

That may not be true. It's possible that a large prison population might lead to an increase in crime. A large prison population could act as a better crime school than a small population. If that were the case, when criminals leave prison they'd be better at being criminals and possibly commit more crime.

Who said anything about leave? Prisoners should not be released until a board is convinced they will not re-offend.

Habeas corpus and all that... the principle of a prison sentence is that, except for the most terrible crimes, it is a temporary measure, with the understanding that most prisoners will get out of there sooner or later, maybe later for killers, but fairly soon for thieves, conmen, and other reckless drivers. Your proposal of liberation subject to a board is inconstitutional, especially since an administrative (executive) body would be alloaved to overrule a judicial decision.

Well there's your problem right there. Easy to solve, just make many more crimes capital crimes...like dropping gum on the sidewalk.

China does it, why don't we? After all, Communism is good, right?

Anyway, the best solution to violent crime is to let the victims deal with it in the moment, which eliminates ongoing incarceration costs and saves the taxpayers a bundle in court costs.

[Blind groper]

To Seth

The best way of dealing with crime is to carry out a multinational study of all the different ways various peoples have dealt with crime in the past, and quantify the results. Then proceed to use those techniques which are proven to reduce further offending.

Of course, this requires people to dump their preconceptions and prejudices, which is very difficult for the vast bulk of people.

[Seth]

To Seth

The best way of dealing with crime is to carry out a multinational study of all the different ways various peoples have dealt with crime in the past, and quantify the results. Then proceed to use those techniques which are proven to reduce further offending.

Of course, this requires people to dump their preconceptions and prejudices, which is very difficult for the vast bulk of people.

Oh yeah, another study is going to eliminate crime...right.

I'll stick to keeping anyone from making me a victim of violent crime when and where legally authorized to do so.

You can do all the studies you want. Perhaps if you stack up all the reports and hold them in front of you they'll stop a bullet...or an anti-tank round at this point.

Good luck with that.

[Blind groper]

The studies have already been done. The problem is idiotic politicians who ignore the results.

For example : we know already that there is a massive reduction in criminal offending simply from maturity. Get a young punk and lock him up. Release him before age 30 and he will most definitely offend again. Wait till he is (say) 32, and the reoffending is much less likely.

Train prisoners to give them saleable skills, and help them into jobs upon release, and the odds of reoffending drop.

There are a lot of bits of knowledge like this gleaned from hundreds of studies. Mostly those idiot politicians ignore the results.

For you guys in the USA, the biggest way of reducing offending is simply to decriminalise the recreational use of drugs like marijuana.

[Seth]

The studies have already been done. The problem is idiotic politicians who ignore the results.

For example : we know already that there is a massive reduction in criminal offending simply from maturity. Get a young punk and lock him up. Release him before age 30 and he will most definitely offend again. Wait till he is (say) 32, and the reoffending is much less likely.

Train prisoners to give them saleable skills, and help them into jobs upon release, and the odds of reoffending drop.

There are a lot of bits of knowledge like this gleaned from hundreds of studies. Mostly those idiot politicians ignore the results.

For you guys in the USA, the biggest way of reducing offending is simply to decriminalise the recreational use of drugs like marijuana.

Strangely, I agree with everything you just wrote.... go figure...

[Collector1337]

Really... we should decriminalize all drugs and let the "problem" sort itself out.

[Warren Dew]

For example : we know already that there is a massive reduction in criminal offending simply from maturity. Get a young punk and lock him up. Release him before age 30 and he will most definitely offend again. Wait till he is (say) 32, and the reoffending is much less likely.

This might actually make practical sense. However, it might also raise equal protection concerns to give younger people longer sentences based on their age.

[mistermack]

If I was in power, I would be issuing orders right now, for a system to be developed where convicts never meet another convict.
If it has to be solitary, then it has to be. Prison isn't there for their benefit, it's for ours.
Make every cell big enough for exercise, and kit it out with a keyboard and screen, so that inmates can access a special prison internet.
And have a system of volunteers when members of the public can provide some bit of company, if the prisoners opt for it.

The only exception that I would allow, would be for those serving the very longest sentences, who are going to never get out, or will be very old when they do.

As far as human rights of prisoners go, they lose those when they get convicted of serious crimes.
If it makes prison a worse experience, good.

[Audley Strange]

Nope not guns. Mobile phones. Is that just too obvious?

I'd say guns AND mobile phones.

Sure in the U.S. you may be correct. However you had guns before mobile phones and that didn't make it drop quite as much as they did did it? Also you can't really use that as an argument for the decrease in crime in Europe.

I don't want to take away your guns. If anything I'd encourage you over there to have more. Just, stay there eh?