French magazine publishes Muhammed lulz.

[Mysturji]

...but there are tactful, strategic ways of doing so and there are childish, hateful ways of doing so...

People have tried that.
It doesn't work when you're dealing with childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards. We need to talk to them in a language they can understand, otherwise it's just playing chess with pigeons.
Heavily armed, psychotic pigeons, with scimitars, and machine guns, and semtex, and airplanes, and tanks...
And the chess pieces are real people, and the chessboard is the world. And I for one don't want them crapping all over it.

[Gerald McGrew]

CES,

I think it comes down to a question of where one draws the line. I saw the movie as a pathetically childish stunt that was intentionally designed to piss off and inflame Muslims. That's why they forwarded the trailer to every middle eastern news outlet they could find. They knew exactly what they were doing and what the result would be. That's both stupid and childish IMO, and is no different than cursing around Granny or burning pigs blood-drenched Korans that are wrapped in bacon and sending video of the event to every Muslim in the world. The intent of all those acts is painfully obvious.

The Danish cartoons and Satanic Verses OTOH I see as legitimate expressions of a viewpoint.

The latest cartoons I think are somewhere in the middle. Given their timing and content (Mohammed's dick and balls? Really?), I think they're slightly on the "stupid and childish" side of the spectrum, but less so than the movie.

But again, none of that is to try and argue for banning any of it. It's all free speech and we both agree that we're not giving that up at all.

[Gerald McGrew]

People have tried that.
It doesn't work when you're dealing with childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards. We need to talk to them in a language they can understand, otherwise it's just playing chess with pigeons.
Heavily armed, psychotic pigeons, with scimitars, and machine guns, and semtex, and airplanes, and tanks...
And the chess pieces are real people, and the chessboard is the world. And I for one don't want them crapping all over it.

Except the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" are a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

[Mysturji]

People have tried that.
It doesn't work when you're dealing with childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards. We need to talk to them in a language they can understand, otherwise it's just playing chess with pigeons.
Heavily armed, psychotic pigeons, with scimitars, and machine guns, and semtex, and airplanes, and tanks...
And the chess pieces are real people, and the chessboard is the world. And I for one don't want them crapping all over it.

Except the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" are a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

Yes. what's your point?

If I might hazard a guess... Is it that "provocative" critical and/or satirical publications about Islam and/or Mohammad also offend moderate Muslims, and what have they done to deserve that, so why offend them?

Those other Muslims have already demonstrated 2 things:
1. They're mature enough to deal with such "provocation" in a grown-up, peaceful way. I don't think they're particularly offended by such things, and if they are, they can deal with it like adults. It's the ones who can't that are the problem.
2. They're either too afraid or too indifferent to challenge that "tiny minority" who go around killing people and torching embassies just because a handful of nobodies on the internet made a bad movie.

Well SOMEONE needs to challenge them.
BRAVO CHARLIE HEBDO!

[Animavore]

Another good thing about this is it'll shut up those Christians who, when their own precious Jesus is mocked, whine, with jihad envy: You wouldn't dare do that to Islam

[Gerald McGrew]

Yes. what's your point?

If I might hazard a guess... Is it that "provocative" critical and/or satirical publications about Islam and/or Mohammad also offend moderate Muslims, and what have they done to deserve that, so why offend them?

Those other Muslims have already demonstrated 2 things:
1. They're mature enough to deal with such "provocation" in a grown-up, peaceful way. I don't think they're particularly offended by such things, and if they are, they can deal with it like adults. It's the ones who can't that are the problem.
2. They're either too afraid or too indifferent to challenge that "tiny minority" who go around killing people and torching embassies just because a handful of nobodies on the internet made a bad movie.

Well SOMEONE needs to challenge them.
BRAVO CHARLIE HEBDO!

The point is, the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" aren't people you "work with" in the first place. You don't "work with" them at all. They're exactly as you described and they're a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

The people you "work with" are "those other Muslims". Now, I tend to think that "working with those other Muslims" does not include doing everything you can to insult them and piss them off. If you think it does, then you and I have very different ideas on what "working with people" involves.

[Gerald McGrew]

Yes. what's your point?

If I might hazard a guess... Is it that "provocative" critical and/or satirical publications about Islam and/or Mohammad also offend moderate Muslims, and what have they done to deserve that, so why offend them?

Those other Muslims have already demonstrated 2 things:
1. They're mature enough to deal with such "provocation" in a grown-up, peaceful way. I don't think they're particularly offended by such things, and if they are, they can deal with it like adults. It's the ones who can't that are the problem.
2. They're either too afraid or too indifferent to challenge that "tiny minority" who go around killing people and torching embassies just because a handful of nobodies on the internet made a bad movie.

Well SOMEONE needs to challenge them.
BRAVO CHARLIE HEBDO!

The point is, the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" aren't people you "work with" in the first place. You don't "work with" them at all. They're exactly as you described and they're a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

The people you "work with" are "those other Muslims". Now, I tend to think that "working with those other Muslims" does not include doing everything you can to insult them and piss them off. If you think it does, then you and I have very different ideas on what "working with people" involves.

[Svartalf]

People have tried that.
It doesn't work when you're dealing with childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards. We need to talk to them in a language they can understand, otherwise it's just playing chess with pigeons.
Heavily armed, psychotic pigeons, with scimitars, and machine guns, and semtex, and airplanes, and tanks...
And the chess pieces are real people, and the chessboard is the world. And I for one don't want them crapping all over it.

Except the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" are a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

And they are the ones hogging the mike to express the feelingsd of the whole community.
The reasonable ones will just facepalm and let it go.

[Mysturji]

Yes. what's your point?

If I might hazard a guess... Is it that "provocative" critical and/or satirical publications about Islam and/or Mohammad also offend moderate Muslims, and what have they done to deserve that, so why offend them?

Those other Muslims have already demonstrated 2 things:
1. They're mature enough to deal with such "provocation" in a grown-up, peaceful way. I don't think they're particularly offended by such things, and if they are, they can deal with it like adults. It's the ones who can't that are the problem.
2. They're either too afraid or too indifferent to challenge that "tiny minority" who go around killing people and torching embassies just because a handful of nobodies on the internet made a bad movie.

Well SOMEONE needs to challenge them.
BRAVO CHARLIE HEBDO!

The point is, the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" aren't people you "work with" in the first place. You don't "work with" them at all. They're exactly as you described and they're a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

The people you "work with" are "those other Muslims". Now, I tend to think that "working with those other Muslims" does not include doing everything you can to insult them and piss them off. If you think it does, then you and I have very different ideas on what "working with people" involves.

Where does this

"working with"

you speak of come from?
I said nothing about

"working with"

anybody. I was talking about trying to educate idiots. When a puppy shits on the carpet, rub his nose in it. He will eventually learn, and stop doing it.
But since you seem quite keen to

"work with"

moderate Muslims towards dealing with the fanatical fucktards, I refer you you my point 2 above. It's been tried, to no avail. The "moderate Muslims" are either too afraid, or too indifferent (or perhaps secretly, quietly cheering the jihadi fuck heads on) to do anything about it, and something needs to be done about it.
Bravo Charlie Hebdo.

[colubridae]

People have tried that.
It doesn't work when you're dealing with childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards. We need to talk to them in a language they can understand, otherwise it's just playing chess with pigeons.
Heavily armed, psychotic pigeons, with scimitars, and machine guns, and semtex, and airplanes, and tanks...
And the chess pieces are real people, and the chessboard is the world. And I for one don't want them crapping all over it.

Except the "childish, tantrum-prone, ultraviolent batshit-crazy-ass fucktards" are a tiny minority of the Muslim population.

You are defeating your own point. Your throwaway statement above equates to "If it were not for a tiny minority of crazy fanatics it would be allowable to make deliberately offensive gestures against islam (or anything)"

That’s the exact position that must be abandoned. Allowing fanatics to dictate 'from the barrel of a gun’ teaches them they can achieve whatever ends they desire through violence.
It’s exactly what happened in Germany between the wars. The fear of bringing the brownshirts to your door prevented country-wide anti-nazi protests

[Cormac]

At root, it makes no difference whether this was intended as a direct provocation or as a satirical commentary.

In Western Society, which is, in this regard, superior, we have freedom of speech. We deliberately create the space for gadflies, knowing that on balance it is better for us, and it is a cornerstone of human freedom.

Voluntarily limiting this is a seriously dangerous thing to do. Doing so at the threat of violence is even more dangerous, because it invites more threats of the same nature.

We should carry on as before, and ignore this kind of aggression until such time as we have to take action. (If it comes to that we may fond ourselves in another global conflict and all bets are off).

[Audley Strange]

See I can't agree with this. If a stupid fucking picture is provocation, Why is murdering innocents not? No demonstrations here dragging out Muslims onto the street and killing them for it. No threats from the clergy or politicians demanding we wipe the Kabba cult off the face of the earth. We do nothing, nothing fucking changes. We need to destroy their dreams not blow up their bodies, that further pisses them off.

I suggest we send in Trolls.

[JimC]

See I can't agree with this. If a stupid fucking picture is provocation, Why is murdering innocents not? No demonstrations here dragging out Muslims onto the street and killing them for it. No threats from the clergy or politicians demanding we wipe the Kabba cult off the face of the earth. We do nothing, nothing fucking changes. We need to destroy their dreams not blow up their bodies, that further pisses them off.

I suggest we send in Trolls.

Bombard them with Seths until they retreat in utter confusion!

[Svartalf]

See I can't agree with this. If a stupid fucking picture is provocation, Why is murdering innocents not? No demonstrations here dragging out Muslims onto the street and killing them for it. No threats from the clergy or politicians demanding we wipe the Kabba cult off the face of the earth. We do nothing, nothing fucking changes. We need to destroy their dreams not blow up their bodies, that further pisses them off.

I suggest we send in Trolls.

You weren't in my neighbourhood in 1961 were you? The cops went a little overboard with the darkies, and they still haven't forgiven, even though we've forgotten enough to let them in in great numbers... maybe time to do it again an teach'em who's landlord this side of the Mediterranean.

[Svartalf]

See I can't agree with this. If a stupid fucking picture is provocation, Why is murdering innocents not? No demonstrations here dragging out Muslims onto the street and killing them for it. No threats from the clergy or politicians demanding we wipe the Kabba cult off the face of the earth. We do nothing, nothing fucking changes. We need to destroy their dreams not blow up their bodies, that further pisses them off.

I suggest we send in Trolls.

Bombard them with Seths until they retreat in utter confusion!

You want to have us all dragged to the Hague?