An independent Scotland?

[Red Celt]

You know, the BNP supports a win-win situation for this discussion
Give the English an English Parliament, and drastically curtail the UK's parliamentary powers.

Why would an English Parliament be a win for the BNP, compared to a UK Parliament?

Proportionally, there are more bigoted, xenophobic (/wave Huxley) thugs in England than in England and Scotland combined. They'd have a bigger share of the voting public.

[Pensioner]

Hmmm. Spain not happy with automatic EU membership for Scotland. THe issue is not as clear cut as the Little Scotlanders like to pretend. Salmonella would know this, if he had sought legal advice...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... ship-spain

It’s no wonder that the Scots want to dump the UK and want independence. Just look what they have had to put up with, Thatcher Blair and Cameron. If the Scots vote for Independence I for one will wish them the best of luck and as my mother was a Scot I will ask for a Passport.

[Rum]

It is true that there are more pandas in Scotland than there are Tory MPs.

From a purely selfish point of view if Scotland depart the wonder that is the Union I don't expect England, Wales and NI will see a Labour government in many years given that a good proportion of the United Kingdom's Labour voters are actually Scots residents.. To me that would be a heavy price to pay.

[Red Celt]

It is true that there are more pandas in Scotland than there are Tory MPs.

From a purely selfish point of view if Scotland depart the wonder that is the Union I don't expect England, Wales and NI will see a Labour government in many years given that a good proportion of the United Kingdom's Labour voters are actually Scots residents.. To me that would be a heavy price to pay.

If Britain had been promoted at times other than Jubilees and Olympic events, the non-England parts of Britain wouldn't be so eager to say "fuck you". You reap what you sow. Other parts of England must feel the same way... the further you move North of the Watford Gap, the less 10 Downing Street cares about you.

[Tyrannical]

You kn+-ow, the BNP supports a win-win situation for this discussion
Give the English an English Parliament, and drastically curtail the UK's parliamentary powers.

Why would an English Parliament be a win for the BNP, compared to a UK Parliament?

Because what the SNP ( I assume) wants is more independence to rule Scotland as the Scots see fit. Giving the English a Parliament would sap power from the UK Parliament, allowing for more local autonomy in all four countries.

[Rum]

Your national fervour is unattractive and does not help your case in my view. It is also not universally shared by a long way in Scotland. I think the Union is stronger together and would be better off if it survived but I don't intend to rant about it. I see the Union as 'my country' and would be sorry to see it broken up.

If it does there will be an up side I am sure.

Edit: Should have quoted. This is in response to RC's last post above.

[Clinton Huxley]

Interesting. The separatists like to honk that they are standing on firm ground but it just ain't true.

http://shiftinggrounds.org/2012/10/what ... nd-the-eu/

Two lines of particular interest in that article you linked to:

What emerges from this is that the real determining factors are political rather than legal.
....
I personally have no doubt that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU.

Neither of those are a surprise. Of course the whole thing is a political issue.

[Clinton Huxley]

I never sad Scotland won't be allowed to join the EU. I am certain they will be allowed. However, it is not a done deal they they will just inherit membership, which is what the SNP claim.

[Clinton Huxley]

Hmmm. Spain not happy with automatic EU membership for Scotland. THe issue is not as clear cut as the Little Scotlanders like to pretend. Salmonella would know this, if he had sought legal advice...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... ship-spain

It’s no wonder that the Scots want to dump the UK and want independence. Just look what they have had to put up with, Thatcher Blair and Cameron. If the Scots vote for Independence I for one will wish them the best of luck and as my mother was a Scot I will ask for a Passport.

Pen, you get a passport and I will give you a lift over the border

[Red Celt]

Your national fervour is unattractive and does not help your case in my view. It is also not universally shared by a long way in Scotland. I think the Union is stronger together and would be better off if it survived but I don't intend to rant about it. I see the Union as 'my country' and would be sorry to see it broken up.

If it does there will be an up side I am sure.

Edit: Should have quoted. This is in response to RC's last post above.

My "national fervour"? Unattractive? Will you listen to yourself? And to your walking buddy? The anti-Scots sentiments shown in this thread go beyond unattractive into the fucking disgusting. They are a disgrace to this so called "union" that you're so fond of. This isn't a union of equals. Scotland has been neglected and under-resourced for far too many years. Things can't continue in the same way.

If you don't like the idea of an England permanently governed by Tories or Tory-led coalitions... thank those who have shat on Scotland for so many years, rather than resenting the Scots for finally wanting rid of the odious little fucks.

But hey, if you want to be avoid Tory rule, you're welcome to move north of the border. Only... leave your fucking "porridge" stereotype in England where it belongs.

[Clinton Huxley]

Ronmcd, you seem to be arguing that Scotland definitely would be a successor state but the majority UK might not be.

[Red Celt]

Bigoted coward (or should that be cowardly bigot?) just can't stay away from this thread.

[Rum]

Your national fervour is unattractive and does not help your case in my view. It is also not universally shared by a long way in Scotland. I think the Union is stronger together and would be better off if it survived but I don't intend to rant about it. I see the Union as 'my country' and would be sorry to see it broken up.

If it does there will be an up side I am sure.

Edit: Should have quoted. This is in response to RC's last post above.

My "national fervour"? Unattractive? Will you listen to yourself? And to your walking buddy? The anti-Scots sentiments shown in this thread go beyond unattractive into the fucking disgusting. They are a disgrace to this so called "union" that you're so fond of. This isn't a union of equals. Scotland has been neglected and under-resourced for far too many years. Things can't continue in the same way.

If you don't like the idea of an England permanently governed by Tories or Tory-led coalitions... thank those who have shat on Scotland for so many years, rather than resenting the Scots for finally wanting rid of the odious little fucks.

But hey, if you want to be avoid Tory rule, you're welcome to move north of the border. Only... leave your fucking "porridge" stereotype in England where it belongs.

I suspect you are missing yours most mornings these days. Might account for your nasty temper.

[klr]

Interesting. The separatists like to honk that they are standing on firm ground but it just ain't true.

http://shiftinggrounds.org/2012/10/what ... nd-the-eu/

Two lines of particular interest in that article you linked to:

What emerges from this is that the real determining factors are political rather than legal.
....
I personally have no doubt that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU.

I'm sorry, but I've just read the full article, and that's quote-mining. Quoting out of context if you will. The gist of the article is this: It's a political matter, but Scotland is not going to be in a very good position at all. That's hardly a revelation BTW.

No, Clinton seems to think Scotland would not be allowed to join the EU. The article says what others have said: it's not credible to think the EU would not accept Scotland. We WILL be in EU, undoubtedly after negotiations and political discussions.

It would be quote mining if I were trying to change the meaning of the author's words. I wasn't, as I wasn't commenting on the main thrust of his opinion, ie what Scotland would have to do or go through to be accepted. Just pointing out the parts I quoted - that the author like me thinks Scotland would absolutely be in EU.

Incidentally, I disagree with the article. It asserts that UK would be the successor state, with Scotland being a new state. There are many legal opinions which say that is not so, because we are not talking about the UK being a single state with a small chunk becoming a new country for the first time. We are talking about the breaking of a union between two countries, Scotland and England ie GB, rendering the UK potentially non-existent.

Again - for political reasons - I think that's very unlikely to happen. The "rump" UK will automatically be regarded as the successor state to the current UK in the EU and elsewhere. But (and this has also been said before) there will be horse-trading over the revised details of EU membership for UK "2.0", for all sorts of political, legal and financial reasons. But what's left of the UK will be in a much better position to argue its case than a newly independent Scotland would be. Not only would the remainder of the UK still have enormous political clout, but the changes would be less significant in terms of detail and extent.

As for Scotland, I would not take it as certain that it will remain in the EU as of the date of independence. You might well end up with a situation in the run-up to the vote where there are critical issues left unsettled, and Scottish membership is contingent on those being resolved. Or that Scotland is provisionally accepted, but much important detail remains to be worked out. I think those are the most likely scenarios, and the currency issue could still be at heart of these.

[Clinton Huxley]

I prefer the term "majority UK" to "Rump UK".