Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Tyrannical]

but about being part of something more and something progressive and a chance of moving on from nation statehood.

I know you mean well, but I'd like to avoid WWIII. I could play fortytwo and write a long follow up, but look at what you wrote. Can that reason justify and ensure the EU's existence? No, and you know it.

Seems to me it has been a hugely good thing for Europe since 1945. I don’t just 'mean well'. I’m not the naive idealist you so condescendingly seem to think I am. It has pulled together countries that fought each other for centuries and begun a slow process of making the continent one country. I’m all for that for the sake of peace, security, the breaking down of dangerous nationalism and the kind of politics that got Trump into power.

I agree with most of what you say there. As a racist, I'd prefer these white countries not war and kill each other. But inviting Muslims and third world immigrants and refugees is going to cause violence and strife from within.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, from people like you. Remember Hitler?

[Tyrannical]

Yeah, from people like you. Remember Hitler?

I do remember Hitler and I don't like him. He started the biggest mass White genocide in history.

[Brian Peacock]

Yes, he's a man of honour.

[Scot Dutchy]

UK to concede regulatory alignment on island of Ireland

The UK has conceded to EU negotiators that there will be no divergence of the rules covering the EU single market and customs union on the island of Ireland post Brexit, according to a draft negotiating text seen by RTÉ News.

The concession, if accepted by the Irish Government, would have far reaching implications for how closely Northern Ireland remains bound to EU structures.

But it remains an open question if the final text will be agreeable to both the Irish and British governments.

The discussions are still ongoing amid signs that the British government is having difficulties with the latest version of the text on Ireland.

A special meeting of the Cabinet is reviewing discussions with the British government this morning.

How close is unification?

[mistermack]

How close is unification?

Not close at all.
The only problem is that the Unionists don't want a customs border between the North and the rest of the UK.
That would be the obvious solution, but they don't like it as it differentiates the North from the rest of us.
But realistically, there are only two choices. A customs border between North and South, or one between the North and the rest of the UK.

There has to be one somewhere, to stop people and goods being smuggled.
So the pressure is on the Unionists. Where do you want the customs check? Choose one of two.

In the end, they have to choose checks on arrival from the North to England etc. But maybe they will demand, and get, some sort of fudge, that can be gradually ratcheted up to full checks.

I don't think anyone wants the old border back.

Coming back from the Republic to Wales, there's fuck-all checking anyway, for ordinary travellers. You nearly always go straight through customs without a stop.

[Rum]

The Republicans don't want a border either of course. The absence of one provides the illusion that the island is on the road to becoming one state. Any hard border will see the IRA back in action.

[Brian Peacock]

Political wing of the Old Testament scupper May's deal...

Theresa May’s political weakness was brutally exposed to Brussels on Monday as an agreement struck between Britain and the EU to solve the problem of the Irish border and move to the next phase of Brexit talks was torpedoed by a last-minute telephone call with the leader of the Democratic Unionist party.

Confidence early on Monday that an agreement was within reach came to nothing when, during a working lunch with the European commission president, Jean Claude Juncker, May was forced to pause discussions to take a call from Arlene Foster.

The unionist leader, whose party currently provides the Tories with a working majority in the Commons, told the British prime minister that she could not support Downing Street’s planned commitment to keep Northern Ireland aligned with EU laws.

In London, Tory Brexiters, including Iain Duncan Smith and Jacob Rees-Mogg, told the Brexit minister Steve Baker, and the prime minister’s chief of staff, Gavin Barwell, that they were also rallying behind the DUP’s stance.

Lord Trimble, a former first minister of Northern Ireland told the Guardian said Tory MPs at the meeting had shown “unanimous backing for opposition to the draft proposal he said was “minted in Dublin”.

The development raises fresh questions about May’s ability to deliver on any deal she proposes to the 27 member states, and has filled diplomats in Brussels with a deep foreboding for future talks, should they develop in the new year to take in the future relationship....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ish-border

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan is floating the idea that London could be treated as a special case and stay in single market. This would mean erecting a customs border around the city of course - but it could be done.

[Scot Dutchy]

A great idea. Little England would be the Home counties and the North East and Cornwall.

[rainbow]

A great idea. Little England would be the Home counties and the North East and Cornwall.

Cornwall is NOT part of England!
It is a separate Duchy.
You are being Scilly!

[Brian Peacock]

NI voted remain, but the DUP say, "No!" Old Paisley will be dancing in hell.

[Tyrannical]

UK to concede regulatory alignment on island of Ireland

The UK has conceded to EU negotiators that there will be no divergence of the rules covering the EU single market and customs union on the island of Ireland post Brexit, according to a draft negotiating text seen by RTÉ News.

The concession, if accepted by the Irish Government, would have far reaching implications for how closely Northern Ireland remains bound to EU structures.

But it remains an open question if the final text will be agreeable to both the Irish and British governments.

The discussions are still ongoing amid signs that the British government is having difficulties with the latest version of the text on Ireland.

A special meeting of the Cabinet is reviewing discussions with the British government this morning.

How close is unification?

Never now.
But be a good chap and all try to get along. Ireland has just got the best of both worlds, a border free UK to EU crossing. And if that dumb UK PM stopped annoying Trump, a nice US/UK trade agreement with a borderless Ireland.
Learn to like Trump, there has never been a bigger win for Ireland if that happens.

[Brian Peacock]

Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, and I want you to know that we are with you, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds.

[mistermack]

The media keep banging on about how the DUP have the whip hand, because of the commons arithmatic, but in this case, it doesn't really apply.
There's no way that Theresa May could have imposed a solution on the DUP, even if she had the numbers. It was never going to happen without consent from both sides of the divide.

The DUP are being a bit silly, and painting themselves into a corner. They should have seen this coming, and decided what their bottom line was, and then painted whatever emerges as a victory for them.
In the end, the decision is up to them. Do they want a customs check in England, Scotland and Wales or a border with the republic? I can't see that they can be imagining any other outcome.

No customs at all just ain't going to happen. It can't happen.

[Rum]

There appear to be a number of alternatives to physical checking at the border. These include trusted importers, electronic tagging of goods, regular border crossing approval (e.g. milk from farms) and so on. They all sound a tad flaky to me, but this is what I read.

The DUP may want a physical border, though I doubt it myself. They know, as well as the rest of us that the IRA would be out with their bombs the moment it was on the cards.

Fucking brexit .