An independent Scotland?

[mistermack]

So it appears that I overvalued the Scottish Voters principles by £500 ?
They are for sale for a measley £500, not £1000 . It does them great credit.

The stupid bit is, it's their own money. It has to be found FROM THEM. From Scotland's own budget !!

A bit like saying, if you vote for me, ( and pay me a big fat salary ) I'll let you drive your own car.

This is going to be a test of the stupidity of the Scottish voters. The own-money bribes will be coming thicker and faster as the vote gets nearer. The promise is that the paying-off will be done by others, over years. Why should they care?

[Santa_Claus]

London is an absentee landlord - that does work well enough, but doesn't let the occupants build for own future.

Regarding the nationalism is bad angle (lets all hold hands and hug each other), that's simply naive on how the world and people actually operate (the same reason that Communism failed). We are pack animals who fair better when the pack operates together, and that includes in competition with others. You can wish it ain't so - but that only works in times of plenty. In times of less you WILL find put that others who do not share your happy delusion are eating your lunch because "they" are stronger as a pack.

I am hopeful that Scottish independence will start the English asking WTF is our country for? A vehicle to enahance the lives of the inhabintants (of whatever origin - once you are in, you are in) or simply a place to do business. Like a Trading Estate. If the latter, will soon enough find out that no one will ever fight for a Trading Estate, nor care when it is acquired by someone else or gets broken up (If I lived in the North of England I would likely be thinking Independence from London).

[ronmcd]

So it appears that I overvalued the Scottish Voters principles by £500 ?
They are for sale for a measley £500, not £1000 . It does them great credit.

I think "thrifty" is the cliché you are seeking

The stupid bit is, it's their own money. It has to be found FROM THEM. From Scotland's own budget !!

Eh? Of course it's our money, Scotland contributes more into UK than it gets back in return. Scotland would be running a lower relative deficit than UK. Hence, Scotland would not be too wee or too poor to be independent, in fact would be in a better position. Thats the argument.

However, it isnt as you claim "From Scotland's own budget !!". The whole point of independence is to NOT pay all our taxes and resources into Westminister for them to spend, and give a block grant back. Complete control over spending, decisions made in Scotland on everything, and no nukes ... a perfectly reasonable position.

[mistermack]

And how will the promised perks not come from Scotland's own budget?

I think you need to rethink that one.

[ronmcd]

My only genuine worry about independence at the moment isn't economic, I'm sure Scotland would be fine. No, my worry is Scottish Labour. This week has shown just how all-consuming their hatred is for Alex Salmond, personally, and the SNP in general. Ironic really, when many SNP voters are disillusioned Labour supporters who don't understand the visceral hatred.

I would hope that an independent Scotland might see a more consensual politics at Holyrood ... it concerns me that that might not happen.

[ronmcd]

And how will the promised perks not come from Scotland's own budget?

I think you need to rethink that one.

No, there arent any perks. Scotland would have FULL control of its own budget, and spend accordingly, unlike at the moment. Currently that would mean that we would be running a deficit, as UK is, but relatively lower deficit than UK. Thats where the £1000 per household comes from. Its not a "profit", or a surplus, or a bonus or a perk. It's a relative improvement over the position within UK.

My point about the "budget" was simply that there would be no block grant, as now, fro Westminister. Scotland would be independent, completely.

It's not complicated, you are trying hard to not understand I think.

[mistermack]

London is an absentee landlord - that does work well enough, but doesn't let the occupants build for own future.

Regarding the nationalism is bad angle (lets all hold hands and hug each other), that's simply naive on how the world and people actually operate (the same reason that Communism failed). We are pack animals who fair better when the pack operates together, and that includes in competition with others. You can wish it ain't so - but that only works in times of plenty. In times of less you WILL find put that others who do not share your happy delusion are eating your lunch because "they" are stronger as a pack.

I am hopeful that Scottish independence will start the English asking WTF is our country for? A vehicle to enahance the lives of the inhabintants (of whatever origin - once you are in, you are in) or simply a place to do business. Like a Trading Estate. If the latter, will soon enough find out that no one will ever fight for a Trading Estate, nor care when it is acquired by someone else or gets broken up (If I lived in the North of England I would likely be thinking Independence from London).

Bit like Belgium and Holland, in 1939? They had their own little pack.
But Germany's BIG pack wasn't impressed.

Trading estates might be bland. But people make a living there. And make things.
As opposed to dealing in commodities. Somebody has to do it.
We can't all be shopkeepers and accountants.

[Red Celt]

It's a waste of time debating with the naysayers. They're stuck in the past. Not one of them has given their opinion about Ireland's independence. Either they would have complained about that happening, too... or they wouldn't. If they wouldn't, how could they then justify their disagreement about Scotland taking the same path? They're either trying to hang on to a long-lost empire, or they're hypocrites.

Regardless, unless they're on Scotland's electoral roll, their opinion means diddly-squat for the 2014 referendum.

[mistermack]

My only genuine worry about independence at the moment isn't economic, I'm sure Scotland would be fine. No, my worry is Scottish Labour. This week has shown just how all-consuming their hatred is for Alex Salmond, personally, and the SNP in general. Ironic really, when many SNP voters are disillusioned Labour supporters who don't understand the visceral hatred.

I would hope that an independent Scotland might see a more consensual politics at Holyrood ... it concerns me that that might not happen.

I think there are lots more things to worry about.
Like when the vote is no, and the loonies among the nationalists start letting off bombs, as in the Basque region, or NI.
Naaaaaaaaaahh, that could NEVER happen.

[Red Celt]

My only genuine worry about independence at the moment isn't economic, I'm sure Scotland would be fine. No, my worry is Scottish Labour. This week has shown just how all-consuming their hatred is for Alex Salmond, personally, and the SNP in general. Ironic really, when many SNP voters are disillusioned Labour supporters who don't understand the visceral hatred.

I would hope that an independent Scotland might see a more consensual politics at Holyrood ... it concerns me that that might not happen.

I think there are lots more things to worry about.
Like when the vote is no, and the loonies among the nationalists start letting off bombs, as in the Basque region, or NI.
Naaaaaaaaaahh, that could NEVER happen.

For those referencing the violence of Scots, I'd like to point out the paths of both Ireland and Scotland. Ireland's independence cost a lot of blood (on both sides). And of Scotland? Perhaps someone in Whitehall got a paper cut handling some of the documents... but otherwise, STFU about loonies and bombs.

[ronmcd]

My only genuine worry about independence at the moment isn't economic, I'm sure Scotland would be fine. No, my worry is Scottish Labour. This week has shown just how all-consuming their hatred is for Alex Salmond, personally, and the SNP in general. Ironic really, when many SNP voters are disillusioned Labour supporters who don't understand the visceral hatred.

I would hope that an independent Scotland might see a more consensual politics at Holyrood ... it concerns me that that might not happen.

I think there are lots more things to worry about.
Like when the vote is no, and the loonies among the nationalists start letting off bombs, as in the Basque region, or NI.
Naaaaaaaaaahh, that could NEVER happen.

LOL! Your utter abject ignorance of Scotland is revealed.

[mistermack]

LOL! Your utter abject ignorance of Scotland is revealed.

I think I understand Scotland perfectly well.
It's for sale, in a referendum on independence, for £500 a head. Or 100 fish suppers.

Why not invite the billionaires of the world to bid? I'm sure that the king of Saudi wouldn't mind another little country. He could pay more than that, out of his spare change.

Donald Trump might be interested in bidding for the whole lot. I'm sure he could get the backing.

100 fish suppers per year, or free tickets to Rangers matches for the next three years.
Even Richard Branson could afford that.

Go for it.

[ronmcd]

LOL! Your utter abject ignorance of Scotland is revealed.

I think I understand Scotland perfectly well.
It's for sale, in a referendum on independence, for £500 a head. Or 100 fish suppers.

Why not invite the billionaires of the world to bid? I'm sure that the king of Saudi wouldn't mind another little country. He could pay more than that, out of his spare change.

Donald Trump might be interested in bidding for the whole lot. I'm sure he could get the backing.

100 fish suppers per year, or free tickets to Rangers matches for the next three years.
Even Richard Branson could afford that.

Go for it.

Good stuff, keep it up, the more people in Scotland reading shite like this the more likely they will vote yes.

[Tyrannical]

So, who gets to be King of Scotland? Who would be Mary's closest Scottish relative? I bet the Pope could crown him while sitting above the coronation stone.

[Red Celt]

So, who gets to be King of Scotland? Who would be Mary's closest Scottish relative? I bet the Pope could crown him while sitting above the coronation stone.

Scotland already has a monarch... and her mother was a Scot.