And that's WHY we carry them...

[Seth]

To laklak

The math is simple. 100,000 Americans get shot each year (most survive). Average life span is a bit less than 80. Calculate.

See, I told you he was mathematically illiterate...

[piscator]

To laklak

The math is simple. 100,000 Americans get shot each year (most survive). Average life span is a bit less than 80. Calculate.

Goddamn Battle of the Somme going on here!


Nowhere near 100,000 Americans get shot ever year, much less in America.

[Seth]

To laklak

The math is simple. 100,000 Americans get shot each year (most survive). Average life span is a bit less than 80. Calculate.

Goddamn Battle of the Somme going on here!


Nowhere near 100,000 Americans get shot ever year, much less in America.

He includes any injury caused by a firearm, whether intentional or accidental, and he fails to account for either criminal violence or criminals who tend to get shot more than once.

But it's irrelevant. Doesn't matter if a million people a year get shot, that just means that a million people needed to be armed and trained so they might have the chance to not get shot and to end their attacker.

It's pure ideological stupidity to weep hysterically about all those poor people who get shot every year and try to use that as an argument for banning guns, because in the case of accidents (which are actually quite rare and are down more than 93% since the 20's) the fact that one person does something stupid with a gun doesn't mean that anyone else, much less everyone else, is likely to do so, and in the case of crimes, more gun crimes militates for more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens with which to resist and deter such crime, not fewer.

[piscator]

To laklak

The math is simple. 100,000 Americans get shot each year (most survive). Average life span is a bit less than 80. Calculate.

Goddamn Battle of the Somme going on here!


Nowhere near 100,000 Americans get shot ever year, much less in America.

He includes any injury caused by a firearm, whether intentional or accidental, and he fails to account for either criminal violence or criminals who tend to get shot more than once.

.

"Get shot" is a passive voice which implies another agent that does the acting. A shooter and a shootee. Like an infantryman taking a .30 cal in the ass for Allah from one of the 100,000,000 Kalishnikovs unaccounted for by the manufacturer. He got shot.


My little brother who emptied out a shot shell, put the brass in a vice and smacked the primer with a hammer and nail when he was 12 and took 4 stitches in his pinkie?

[Blind groper]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... erica?lite

I made it clear that the number 100,000 was those who took a bullet, and I even stated that most survived (see reference above). Deaths come from 10,000 murders and 12,000 suicides. However, very few of the survivors from the 100,000 were attempted suicides, since most such attempts with a gun (90%) result in death.

With 100,000 receiving a bullet every year, 320 million Americans, and an average lifespan of 80, that gives us a figure of 1 American in 40 receiving a bullet some time in their lives. However, I said 1 in 50, and that was deliberate, since some of those people will get a bullet through their body more than once. So 1 in 50 is a good estimate of the number of Americans who receive a bullet some time in their lives. So, no. I am not mathematically illiterate!

1 in 50 is a ridiculous number. That risk is far too high, and is a result of far too many guns in the USA, and far too little gun control.

If Americans treated guns the way they treated cars, things would be much better. You need a licence to drive a car, but anyone can buy a gun on the second hand market. You need training, and you need to follow a whole bunch of rules, which are strongly policed, if you drive a car. Not so with guns. Gun deaths, and the 100,000 each year who receive a bullet, would be numbers that would drop dramatically, if Americans treated guns the way they treat cars.

[Blind groper]

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=187299991 ... main=10202

And one just for Seth, since he looooves anecdotes. This is another true anecdote, about a guy with a concealed carry permit who shot and killed a guy in a bar room brawl, and got 11 years in prison for a reward.

[piscator]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... erica?lite

I made it clear that the number 100,000 was those who took a bullet, and I even stated that most survived (see reference above). Deaths come from 10,000 murders and 12,000 suicides. However, very few of the survivors from the 100,000 were attempted suicides, since most such attempts with a gun (90%) result in death.

With 100,000 receiving a bullet every year, 320 million Americans, and an average lifespan of 80, that gives us a figure of 1 American in 40 receiving a bullet some time in their lives. However, I said 1 in 50, and that was deliberate, since some of those people will get a bullet through their body more than once. So 1 in 50 is a good estimate of the number of Americans who receive a bullet some time in their lives. So, no. I am not mathematically illiterate!

1 in 50 is a ridiculous number. That risk is far too high, and is a result of far too many guns in the USA, and far too little gun control.

If Americans treated guns the way they treated cars, things would be much better. You need a licence to drive a car, but anyone can buy a gun on the second hand market. You need training, and you need to follow a whole bunch of rules, which are strongly policed, if you drive a car. Not so with guns. Gun deaths, and the 100,000 each year who receive a bullet, would be numbers that would drop dramatically, if Americans treated guns the way they treat cars.

Driving a car is a privilege. Owning a firearm is a right.

[Blind groper]

To Piscator

As I have said before "rights" are simply the things that the people in charge permit ordinary people to do. Having a gun is a 'right' in the USA only, and that is probably about the weirdest 'right' I have ever encountered. Driving a car could just as easily be a 'right' if the powers that be decided to go that way. Either way, such a 'right' results in a massive death toll. 22,000 people per year dead in the USA due to an encounter with a bullet, every year. Duh!

[piscator]

To Piscator

As I have said before "rights" are simply the things that the people in charge permit ordinary people to do.

Try to take Seth's gun. We'll see who's in charge here.

[laklak]

Hell, why not include Mexico too? They're just across a very, very porous border, plenty of guns manage to get through in both directions. For that matter, throw in Central America. Fuck load of people getting shot down there.

Your 1 in 50 has no bearing on anyone I know, even if it's accurate. Here are countrywide murder rates from the New York Times.

Black males stand a 1 in 21 chance of being murdered, white males 1 in 131, black females 1 in 104 and white females 1 in 369.

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/06/us/ar ... -says.html

Black males make up over 50% of all murder victims AND perpetrators in the U.S., despite only being about 6 or 7% of the population. Urban centers have on average 74% more murders then rural areas and 37% more murders then suburban areas. So I'm guessing your chances of being shot as an urban, black male sometime in your life is probably a fuck of a lot worse than 1 in 50. However, your chances of being shot as a white, rural female are far, far less then that.

The point is you cannot lump 50 states together, consolidate the statistics and get anything meaningful out of it without taking one hell of a lot more into consideration. The statistic by itself is meaningless. Piscator lives in Alaska, which has a lower murder rate than Florida despite having a much higher percentage of gun ownership. Vermont has twice the guns per capita as Illinois yet their murder rate is less than 1/4 that of Illinois. Why?

[piscator]

Urban squalor. The Irish in America used to kill each other with much higher frequency when they occupied the lower socioeconomic rungs. They'll still beat the hell out of you if you fuck up.

[Blind groper]

Laklak

Your figures about different socio-economic groups simply show that more violent people commit more violence than less violent people. Sure, I agree. But there is one very important detail that overlooks.

Normal violence does not often result in deaths. Gun violence does. And the best way to reduce gun violence is to remove guns.

For example : in Britain, only one stabbing in 400 results in the victim dying. In the USA, (deliberately excluding suicides) one shooting in eight results in the victim dying. Remove guns, and the death toll drops. 1 person in 50 receiving a bullet is way too high.

[MrJonno]

I got shot with a paintball pellet which causes some nasty cuts on my knuckle once

[pErvinalia]

BG.... Why do you care about guns in the US so much?? American gun culture is (thankfully) one of the few things that the US isn't exporting to the rest of the world. Who cares what they do to themselves??

[MrJonno]

It normally comes up when Americans bring it up on a international forum like this (I certainly wouldn't go onto a US political site and start saying silly American and your guns)