You guys and your guns...

[Jason]

Oh Canada..

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Whatever it turns out to be, it is going to have to have a small grip and be fairly light. I know I couldn't handle anything big and heavy -especially to start with.

Hey, I could handle on at 19.

That, dear, is not a handgun.

Did I tell you I want to buy a boat?

Why do you want a boat?

I kind of miss going to the office every day.


Brown Water Navy at My Tho Dec 1968--iimg051 by Lance & Cromwell (home safe-pictures coming), on Flickr

[Graculus]

http://thismodernworld.com/wp-content/u ... copy-2.jpg

One American's take.

[Jason]

My next rifle:

Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua

..or it would have been if I didn't have to spend $2000 on my pick-up truck!

[FBM]

The US doesn't have too many firearms, it has too many idjits, criminals and loonies who have access to them. Big difference when it comes to solving the problem. If guns themselves were evil, skill at using them wouldn't be an Olympic sport, would it?

[Seth]

My next rifle:

Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua

..or it would have been if I didn't have to spend $2000 on my pick-up truck!

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt! Mine currently has a U.S. Optics SN3 3.8-22 ERGO scope with MOA EREK elevation and MOA lighted reticle.

Tack driver in the extreme. I shot a 6 inch group at 1000 yards two months ago at the Whittington Center.

However, if you get one, and it has the standard 1 in 12 twist, do NOT try to shoot the 300 grain Matchking bullets, shoot the 250 grain. The twist is not fast enough to stabilize the 300 grain round.

That's how I got my rifle used, with 5 rounds through it, from Cabelas, at a killer low price. They sold it to some guy along with a box of 300 grain Black Hills ammo, he took it out and shot five rounds and couldn't keep the rounds on a sight-in target (16x16) at 100 yards and demanded his money back. So it was sitting in the bottom of a display case, partially concealed by various empty boxes when I found it. They couldn't sell it as new, and thought it was defective. Knowing Sako, I knew that wasn't the problem and sure enough the folks at Black Hills clued me in and sold me a case of 250 grain rounds, with which I shot the above group, along with 1" sticks of dynamite at 740 yards.

Mine's got the folding stock as well, a $1700 option.

[Seth]

I actually started this thread, not to be critical of the whole American gun thing, but as an attempt to understand it. Seth's response to my "3 strands" suggested I was at least approximately on the right track, although he too misunderstood my intentions...

Did I? I don't think so. You properly identified three valid arguments for gun ownership, but you fail to understand two of them almost completely. Why is it that you think that self defense and defense of the nation against tyranny are not valid objectives of gun ownership? It's probably because you have servile mindset that causes you to place total trust in your government and police and you really believe that the government is always going to be benevolent and working in your best interests, and that the police are always going to be there when you need them.

Both of these beliefs are deranged to the point of clinical insanity, as demonstrated by history.

[Seth]

Edit- Didn't want to start another thread but had no idea where to post this nifty little gadget.
I've never seen one before. Illegal in the States, surely?

It's only illegal if you haven't filed for and received the proper paperwork and licensing from the BATFE under the National Firearms Act as a suppressor manufacturer or you didn't do the paperwork to buy it as a suppressor from a licensed Class III dealer.

Just sticking ANYTHING (includng a liter soda bottle) on the end of a gun to reduce the sound signature without the proper paperwork is, however, illegal under the NFA.

The market for suppressors has never been stronger in the US. They are so popular that the waiting time for the BATFE approval for a suppressor purchase is about a year to a year and a half right now, whereas two years ago it was two months.

Suppressors make plenty of sense, and are rarely used in crimes (contrary to popular myth) and they are commonly available in places like Switzerland and Germany as well as the US. They protect your hearing, they reduce the nuisance impact of shooting, they sometimes improve accuracy, and they make pig hunting at night particularly fruitful.

I've got a couple of suppressor apps in the mill right now.

I was under the impression that they were a no-no, full-stop. What about arms with in-built suppressors? - I take it you could only obtain one with the above parework?
I suspect the movie industry of expanding fears about them being associated with clandestine 'hits' and other sinister stuff.
Once upon a time they were considered a courtesy around here.

Yes, you can buy any type of suppressed firearm if you aren't a felon and haven't been convicted of a domestic violence crime, aren't a drug abuser and can otherwise pass the required background check...and live in a state where suppressors are legal. There are several states (like Illinois) where they are not, just as there are several states where machine guns are not legal. But if your state does not ban them, it's just a tax matter. You fill out the paperwork and pay a $200 tax and get a stamp (literally) on the paperwork, and you're good to go. You also have to give the BATFE notice if you move the Class III device (machine gun, suppressor, short rifle or shotgun or other "destructive device") out of your home state to another state, but that's easy. Once a year you send them a letter saying that you will be using the devices in states X, Y and Z for training, competition and recreation. That's it. You just have to make sure you don't pass through any states where it's illegal to possess the weapon enroute to the other state.

[Blind groper]

Here in New Zealand, you have to get a gun license to own a gun. It applies only to 'sporting' firearms, like deer hunting rifles, or duck hunting shot guns. To get a license, you have to pass a written test, showing you understand gun safety and the law as relates to guns. You also have to pass a police check, which includes an inspection of your home to demonstrate that you possess a lockable gun cabinet that is as close to practicable to burglar proof.

The biggest firearm problem in the USA, as far as I can see, is hand guns. The homicide rate here in NZ is 1.4 killings per 100,000 people per year. In the USA, it is 4.8. Which shows that the USA does have a problem.

Of that 4.8 killings per 100,000 people per year, two thirds are killings by firearms, and two thirds of that group is killings by hand gun. Since hand guns have no real use apart from as tools for murder, the logical thing is to ban or restrict them. They are no use for opposing tyranny, since an autocratic government would have soldiers equipped to kill its citizenry long before they could get within hand gun range. They are next to useless as hunting weapons. Their only real special properties are portability and ability to carry them concealed, while being useful only for killing other people at close range.

I have no problem with someone having a rifle to let them knock off a few pests, or put venison on the table. Hand guns, though, have only one use. To kill human beings.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hand guns, though, have only one use. To kill human beings.

Someone should tell the Olympics then, they have pistol competitions.

[Jason]

Actually, I know quite a few people who have handguns for sport shooting (competitions) and more who use them for hunting game from rabbits to bear.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Actually, I know quite a few people who have handguns for sport shooting (competitions) and more who use them for hunting game from rabbits to bear.

Trees are for squirrels? Tell it to the Bonsai folks.

Sweeping generalizations are so much fun.

[Blind groper]

Actually, I know quite a few people who have handguns for sport shooting (competitions) and more who use them for hunting game from rabbits to bear.

That is, of course, correct. But rifles are more practical, and bring back home more bacon. Hand guns for sports competitions do not need to be deadly. There are air pistol clubs also, who shoot at targets, and their weapons will not kill anyone (unless by a gigantic fluke). Hand guns for sports competitions and for hunting have totally acceptable alternatives.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, police should carry long guns only?

[JimC]

Hand guns, though, have only one use. To kill human beings.

Someone should tell the Olympics then, they have pistol competitions.

Those target pistols are rather specialised, and would be difficult to carry concealed, or to shoot quickly in a combat situation. In addition, one could have special licenses available for competition pistol shooters, with stringent conditions on storage and transport, while still banning hand-guns in the general population. That indeed is the situation in Oz...

So, police should carry long guns only?

Clearly law enforcement is different to the general population, and different rules would apply.