Public school controversy over singing Muslim worship song.

[Animavore]

You say that like it's a bad thing. That Dracula tune is actually pretty awesome - and sexy - too

[PsychoSerenity]

I'm with Ani - after reading the lyrics, there's nothing in there you wouldn't get in any religious song. And the point of it was to practice a song from a different style/culture, so it's the kid's problem if he finds it offensive.

Thought experiment:

What if a Muslim student objected to "Onward Christian Soldiers?" Same result? Different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbAba0qLHI

Exactly the same. If someone is offended by a choir singing a cultural song, it's their problem, not the choir's. I mean, that's practically what choirs are for. Nobody is required to sing, and certainly nobody is requited to believe in the lyrics. But what else are you going to do, ban all choirs?

[Thinking Aloud]

I'm with Ani - after reading the lyrics, there's nothing in there you wouldn't get in any religious song. And the point of it was to practice a song from a different style/culture, so it's the kid's problem if he finds it offensive.

Thought experiment:

What if a Muslim student objected to "Onward Christian Soldiers?" Same result? Different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbAba0qLHI

Exactly the same. If someone is offended by a choir singing a cultural song, it's their problem, not the choir's. I mean, that's practically what choirs are for. Nobody is required to sing, and certainly nobody is requited to believe in the lyrics. But what else are you going to do, ban all choirs?

Ban all songs that refer to a deity? Just in case someone singing (or listening) happens to think the song requires them to believe, and is offended?

[Coito ergo sum]

Different in the fact Onward Christian Soldier is a terrible, terrible, terrible song with no vibe.

The Muslim song in the OP is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE song with no vibe. It sucks ass.

The question isn't whether one likes or doesn't like the song. Millions of people have LOVED Onward Christian Soldiers and still do. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change the essential question.

Both songs can be argued as excludable because they suck. The question is, is there a reason because of their content to exclude them.

The type of song sung by no-pussy-getting arseholes who don't have the confidence to get up and dance and enjoy themselves. Just standing there droning.


Same in principle, though. Except the latter is specifically about going off fighting for Christianity where the former isn't anything to do with war, except maybe the internal war we face within ourselves

Bullshit.

Onward Christian Soldiers is metaphorical - -they are marching AS TO war. As if -- it's a metaphor for evangalization. The Muslim song specifically talks of perishing and destruction. It may too be metaphorical, but you can't allow for interpretation of one but not the other.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm with Ani - after reading the lyrics, there's nothing in there you wouldn't get in any religious song. And the point of it was to practice a song from a different style/culture, so it's the kid's problem if he finds it offensive.

Thought experiment:

What if a Muslim student objected to "Onward Christian Soldiers?" Same result? Different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbAba0qLHI

Exactly the same. If someone is offended by a choir singing a cultural song, it's their problem, not the choir's. I mean, that's practically what choirs are for. Nobody is required to sing, and certainly nobody is requited to believe in the lyrics. But what else are you going to do, ban all choirs?

I don't know - I haven't solidified a position on this.

Is there an obligation on the part of the public school choir to not sing religious songs in the same way that public school classes cannot say religious prayers even on a voluntary basis?

Is there an obligation on the part of the choir to affirmatively go out and include a variety of religions in their song choices? If so, isn't that in a way prescribing the content of the choir production?

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm with Ani - after reading the lyrics, there's nothing in there you wouldn't get in any religious song. And the point of it was to practice a song from a different style/culture, so it's the kid's problem if he finds it offensive.

Thought experiment:

What if a Muslim student objected to "Onward Christian Soldiers?" Same result? Different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbAba0qLHI

Exactly the same. If someone is offended by a choir singing a cultural song, it's their problem, not the choir's. I mean, that's practically what choirs are for. Nobody is required to sing, and certainly nobody is requited to believe in the lyrics. But what else are you going to do, ban all choirs?

Ban all songs that refer to a deity? Just in case someone singing (or listening) happens to think the song requires them to believe, and is offended?

Beware that a similar argument can be made for teacher-led, but "voluntary" prayers.

[Thinking Aloud]

Both songs can be argued as excludable because they suck.

Subjective opinion of the listener.

The question is, is there a reason because of their content to exclude them.

NO!

Why on earth should there be? Singing a song in a choir is not the same thing as requiring pupils in a school to pray.

Ban all songs that refer to a deity? Just in case someone singing (or listening) happens to think the song requires them to believe, and is offended?

Beware that a similar argument can be made for teacher-led, but "voluntary" prayers.

No - one is trying to impose religious behaviour; the other is learning to sing and performing for entertainment.

[Animavore]

The Muslim song in the OP is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE song with no vibe. It sucks ass.

I disagree.

The question isn't whether one likes or doesn't like the song. Millions of people have LOVED Onward Christian Soldiers and still do. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change the essential question.

Millions of people are squares

Both songs can be argued as excludable because they suck. The question is, is there a reason because of their content to exclude them.

No.

Onward Christian Soldiers is metaphorical - -they are marching AS TO war. As if -- it's a metaphor for evangalization. The Muslim song specifically talks of perishing and destruction. It may too be metaphorical, but you can't allow for interpretation of one but not the other

Fair enough. I never analysed the song. I never got by the first line before switching it off. Reminds me of the days I had to listen to Highway in my granny's on a miserable Sunday

[Animavore]

Just listening to Onward Christian Soldiers.

Christ! Christians are lame. Such sexually repressed bollox. Thank fuck for the 60s influence otherwise we'd still be going to church organised dances with boys on one side girls on the other.

[PsychoSerenity]

Ban all songs that refer to a deity? Just in case someone singing (or listening) happens to think the song requires them to believe, and is offended?

Beware that a similar argument can be made for teacher-led, but "voluntary" prayers.

No - one is trying to impose religious behaviour; the other is learning to sing and performing for entertainment.

is what it comes down to. You could argue there is a grey area with excessively religious or highly offensive songs - I'm sure someone could write a song to intentionally push the boundaries, but then no choir would have to sing it, - but I don't think this song comes close, and ultimately, choir practice is about music, not about believing one thing or another. And as it's about music I'd say it's sensible to practice a variety of styles, which is exactly the point the school made.

[Coito ergo sum]

You say that like it's a bad thing. That Dracula tune is actually pretty awesome - and sexy - too

Islam and Horror -- peas in a pod.

[HomerJay]

That isn't the context of the fucking song.

You're looking at Rahman and saying he seems like a nice bloke, I'm saying that he has bought into a culture he doesn't fully understand and is regurgitating some drivel.

Nice bloke or not, it doesn't stop him from simply repeating century's old prejudices.

Did you actually read the lyrics of the song I posted?

Of course, do you see the battle between monotheism and polytheism?

[Animavore]

That isn't the context of the fucking song.

You're looking at Rahman and saying he seems like a nice bloke, I'm saying that he has bought into a culture he doesn't fully understand and is regurgitating some drivel.

Nice bloke or not, it doesn't stop him from simply repeating century's old prejudices.

Did you actually read the lyrics of the song I posted?

Of course, do you see the battle between monotheism and polytheism?

No. Not in any overt way. I can see how you might see that but I think, without it explicitly mentioning other gods, it can also be taken to mean Allah is above idolatry and material worship.

[Coito ergo sum]

Beware that a similar argument can be made for teacher-led, but "voluntary" prayers.

[/quote]

No - one is trying to impose religious behaviour; the other is learning to sing and performing for entertainment.[/quote]

That all depends on the motivation of the school officials. They may be trying to impose religion through song.

[Thinking Aloud]

Beware that a similar argument can be made for teacher-led, but "voluntary" prayers.

No - one is trying to impose religious behaviour; the other is learning to sing and performing for entertainment.

That all depends on the motivation of the school officials. They may be trying to impose religion through song.

Islam?